Very Quietly Obama’s Citizenship Case Reaches Supreme Court
November 20, 2009
sjidaho
11/16/2009
AP- WASHINGTON D.C. – In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College.
Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school.
The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California.
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Harold
ACGR's "News with Attitude" 
John, thank you! I was about to say the same thing.
Not only that…..Obama has “3” of HIS Judges on the Supreme Court.
Thanks for good info :)
Nixon was involved in water gate. Other Presidents have done wrong and also have lied and many other things have been done with out notice. Cn a mold be broken?
people, use your head for a change. Why would anyone, not produce a birth certificate, immediately, when it was in question, not produce all documents from colleges and universities, when that was questioned and then spend almost one million dollars to keep this information hidden. No one can prove that Obama is not a true fraud and I believe it will be proven eventually. By the way, I am a Democrat but one that has become very disgusted with the likes of Dodd, Franks, Palossi and the worst one of all, Harry Reid. Hopefully the party will find a better path in 2012.
My earliest entry in this blog, “Wel”, was to the same effect: his total lack of forthrightness was damning.
Now we’ve got a blatantly forged Selective Service card (he shouldn’t even have had one) and the mysterious Connecticutt Social Security number (which the courts refused to investigate/explain saying WE didn’t need to know).
Which leads to the conclusion that the government is covering for him.
Which leads to the conclusion that he’s a ‘plant’. Put where he is for a reason.
I believe they played upon his deep-end narcissistic disorder to have him believe he was to be the ‘savior’ when, in fact, there’s another ‘role’ he is to play. (not saying)
A disillusioned Democrat, eh? Well, his string of promises (all unfulfilled) had many believers and converts ready to unseat the previous administration and ‘Hope!’ for better times.
As usual, when the voters unseat one party and replace it with the other, there was no change. Corruption….deceit….lack of transparency….invasiveness….even more taxes…etc. continued unabated, if not worsened.
But I applaud you, “Wel”, for thinking for yourself…observing….deciding if YOU like what you see. It seems most liberals are incapable of free-thinking (K-12 indoctrination by the vastly liberal schools).
If I might suggest, since you seem ready to question ‘doctrine’, read the Constitution. Start with Art.I, Sect.8: what WashDC is ALLOWED to do.
Then jump to the 10th Amendment (it reiterates, in case THEY weren’t paying attention the first time, that the feds are intentionally hobbled in conducting the business of govt.)
Now realize that the feds, both Legislative and Executive branches, ignore the Constitution daily.
A document specifically designed to avoid the EXACT situation we are in today.
Also realize that the ‘feds’ are members of and regulated by: the Democratic and Republican parties. Two sides of the same coin.
Lastly, realize that there is one strict Constitutionalist running for President.
He came in second in Iowa. But was not interviewed or even mentioned in the media.
In an MSNBC poll he drew 54% of the votes. He was not interviewed.
In a ‘Wall Street Journal’ poll they named the 3 main candidates and a category “Someone else”. 60% chose “Someone else”, almost all writing in this candidates name. Again, he was unacknowledged in the media.
Why?
As you know, the media are now owned and controlled by huge corporate conglomerates.
And “they” don’t want YOU to think he has a chance because the LAST thing “they” want is a Constitutionalist sitting in the Oval Office.
What does THIS tell you, “Wel”???
That you’re spectacularly FOS. For once, try vetting the nonsense you wish were true. Use Factcheck or Truthorfiction if you think Snopes is tainted but use something besides letting your viewpoint trump your brains. Funny how the nonexistent standards of rt wing truth are measured by, “Does this BS email bash Obama?” If it does that’s good enough for you demagogic ideologues.
Snopes, you must be kidding. Geroge Soros funds snopes. He also funded Obama presidency and you believe snopes!
And your EVIDENCE that Geroge Soros ALLEGEDLY funds Snopes & that he SUPPOSEDLY funded Obama presidency is WHAT?
And WHERE are these PURPORTED ” copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College” that were SUPPOSEDLY released in 2009?
DOCUMENTATION beat conversation & IF you can NOT provide credible EVIDENCE to document your “claims” & “allegations”, then maybe you should consider the POSSIBILITY that the whole SO-CALLED “eligibility” controversy was a manufactured DISTRACTION & that you have fallen for the effects of the MIND CONTROL & MANIPULATION techniques that are commonly employed in PROPAGANDA & DISINFORMATION today.
MIND CONTROL & MANIPULATION
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alliancepeaceprosperity/message/212
Weapons of MASS DISTRACTION & a THREAT to National SANITY
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alliancepeaceprosperity/message/293
Patrick in California
Founder, ALLIANCE for PEACE & PROSPERITY
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alliancepeaceprosperity/
“It ain’t what ya don’t know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin’ on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain’t so.” — Uncle Remus
“Mass mind control was an art in Old Testament times and it is not a lost art, but a perfected one.” – Unknown
“unrecoverable oblivion”
Pretty much exactly what I heard a representative from the Cato Institute aver: our national debt, based on GNP, has now reached the point where it cannot be repaid. We’ll merely be making interest payments forever.
To a bank.
A private bank.
One that prints our money and ‘sells’ it to the Treasury Department at face-value.
The Federal Reserve.
This was foretold quite awhile ago by Dr. Michael Hudson. Elderly authority on world economies. Consulted with the IMF and the World Bank and numerous countries.
In an interview on WKPA radio (possibly: http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/50059) he gives a dissertation on world economies and government. Non-specific. Trends.
He predicted a world government run by….. banks.
And that it would be preceeded by the creation of massive debt at all levels.
Sounded like that “New World Order” thing. An autocracy of polititians and bankers.
Proponents: daddy Bush, GW, Cheney, Wolfowicz. Brzezinski. Jimmy Carter. Both Clintons. And many, many others. Such as, most probably, the Bilderbergs.
Consider: we all know that banking-collapses don’t create much havoc. The ensuing ‘panic’ does that.
And as we all know, our banking system recently collapsed.
How do we know?
The BANKS told us it did.
Result? The predictable ‘panic’.
What did our govt do? Give everyone a few thousand bucks (remember: it’s ‘our’ money…our taxes. They just give it back and re-collect it later.) to get some cash-flowing through the economy again?
No….they did the opposite.
They gave everything we had to……the banks (the Bailout).(DEBT)
Escalated a pointless war (historically, there is only ever one winner in wars: the banks)(DEBT).
The preposterous ‘Stimulus’ bill (DEBT).
Our govt has added 400,000 more employees (DEBT).
Passed TARP (the Bailout all over again)(more of our money to the banks)(DEBT).
Passed the unConstitutional so-called Medical Reform bill (Obamacare)(exempting themselves, of course, as well as the Amish and….muslims)(???). One of the provisions of Obamacare is that every family in what used to be ‘our country’ will now have to claim the value of their employer-provided healthcare as income. (a family receiving a policy worth $700 a month will now have their income and tax bracket raised by $8,400 a year). More DEBT.
To show their appreciation, most banks raised their credit card interest rates close to 29.99% (at a time when interest rates are at record lows) (DEBT).
Plus the banks are gobbling up home repossessions at about 85,000 a month.
Do you perhaps detect a ‘PLAN’???
Who are the ONLY ones benefitting from the banks supposedly going bankrupt? WHO???
The banks.
Obama (the man without a past)(Democrat) is merely a continuum of a trend begun by GWBush (Republican). A plan to impoverish our nation. Barack’s job was to throw wood on the fire then get booted out. (he certainly did/he certainly will) He is just a willing pawn in this high-stakes game of world domination.
Most certainly ‘they’ expect us to be outraged and vote the Republicans back into power next time around for a ‘change’. But nothing changes, does it? (you should know this by now)
Thus the unguarded borders and federal legislations requiring states to provide 12 million illegals with more benefits, by far, than our own tax-paying citizens receive. (DEBT) (those unguarded borders and rules making enforcement of existing laws impossible make absolutely no sense unless viewed through this ‘objective’, do they? None whatsoever especially when people IN our country are given cavity searches in order to board a plane).
DEBT.
Crippling DEBT.
Conclusion: we are witnessing the plan to initiate The New World Order. Designed to make the USA the alpha-dog (thus our so-called representatives, the few on the ‘inside’, are doing this not only to advance themselves, personally, but for ‘patriotic’ reasons).
THIS is why the states, individually, are standing up to the federal government. To try to halt this coup d’etat.
It is nothing less.
Have a nice day!
To all who love the freedom of living in this Great Country-USA: Even though this is a probable hoax, there is merit in the thoughtt that it should happen, if for no other reason, than to finally put to rest the truth that Barack Hussein Obama is or is not a natural born American Citizen. I, for one, am convinced that he is NOT a natural born citizen and that he is also a closet, practicing MUSLIM. Why else would be spend millions of dollars to keep this information secret from the courts? (factoid) After all, it is a requirement of the Constitution to verify this to the US Juducial Branch to even be eligible to run for the Presidency. It is as simple and defined as showing your driver’s license to cash a check, vote, board an airliner and on and on and on.
Im am convinced that we have a died in the wool socialist President bent on destroying this country as we know it. Even worse than that, we have a like minded Congress willingly helping him spend us into unrecoverable oblivion !!!!!!!
You’re not going to believe this..!
I’m sure they will come up with some story line about how Mrs. Obama didn’t mean what she just said…
But just in case…
Share this Video with Everyone you know and as quickly as you can before it gets removed from YouTube! ….
She said that her husband’s home country was Kenya, South Africa…
Now do you BELIEVE that the American People had been ‘DUPED’ (Sold a Bag of Tricks – Down River)…
Please distribute this Video to Everyone you know……….
Patrick…..where do you find the time to do all the cut and paste????
Holy crap..take a valium….can’t you see that you have made a complete fool of yourself. You are being laughed at, and taunted by those in here, becuase your responses are laughable and predictable….get a clue and a life.
Freedog
Why don`t you get a life free dog. Your like a bird with your head in the sand.Obama has done nothing but to tare down this country. He can never take responsibility for anything.Sounds like your some sum kid that don`t know your but from a hole in the ground.
I think eventually the truth will come out and by then this fake president would have done enough damage to the country that may not even be reversible. But if he did lie about everything, especially his citizenship status I’m sure they can still hang him for fraud and the government can probably null and void his presidency including all his entitlements. It is so obvious that someone or some entity in our system of government are covering up for him and for their sake when the truth is finally reveal that they would do the honorable thing, put a bullet through their brains.
Rick:
I’m not so sure that’ll work…
Our mostly unresponsive ‘reps’ have had that tool in their arsenal all along and haven’t brought it to bear for one reason or another.
And in Congress it will take all of them plus a few Dem’s to make anything happen. Kucinich(D), before he turned on us and voted for the pseudo-med-reform bill, was energetic in trying to get Bush impeached and, as I recall, Cheney impeached and, later, tried for treason.
Few even heard of this.
As I have often stated, the Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin. They have been ‘playing’ the American public for decades.
One or the other pisses everyone off. The other, in an election year, becomes our ‘best friend’ and will come to our rescue. So we vote them in. And it just becomes more of the same dirty politics for the next 4 years. So now the ousted party is outraged! THEY’ll now come to our rescue….. Etc.
THIS is why we must vote BOTH parties OUT. (if they’ll let us)(there is absolutely no doubt that the Republicans ‘threw’ the 2000 and the 2004 elections; once using the Supreme Court and the FL Atty Gen and the other using Diebold voting booths)
We the People have just one ally to whom we can turn.
The states (39 I believe) who have issued “Declarations of Sovereignty”. Arizona is a leader in this movement. And Oklahoma.
They have invoked the 10th Amendment (which merely repeats that which is clearly stated in the Constitution, in case they weren’t listening the first time) which clearly limits the authority of the central government. On purpose. To avoid the EXACT situation we are presently facing: a gluttonous, over-bearing, dictatorial, corrupt federal government that has totally disregarded our Constitution. And ‘We the People’. Daily they pass legislations that are patently un-Constitutional. This either out of ignorance or ignore-ence of “the supreme law of the Land”. Either is unforgiveable especially from those who oathed to “preserve and protect” that very document.
Read your Constitution. (it’s quite succinct! Maybe 15 minutes start to finish!)
Realize that there are only a handful of areas, categories, in which the federal government has any jurisdiction whatsoever!
The 10th most clearly asserts that the states have ALL other authorities and powers! The STATES! This was to have been ‘the united States’ not the “United States’.
Little-by-little, the federal legislators have usurped powers specifically designated as belonging to the states. THEY now rule US. And the states aren’t going to stand for it anymore.
Between the activists (the Tea Parties) and the states, there is a revolution slowly taking place.
Having just seen a ruinous, un-Constitutional Med-Reform bill passed despite surveys (UPI) which revealed, before they voted, that 75% of Americans did not want it (does this look like ‘representative’ government to you?), many now realize that we have lost our government to the arrogant Dem-Reps who have become our masters.
IF you want to make a difference, IF you want to make a stand, IF you want to reinstate our Constitution as the ‘supreme law of the Land’…..send a supportive email to the Attorneys General or governor of each state which has declared sovereignty. Thank them. Let them know you will support them.
WashDC is exerting every force and threat possible to thwart this movement (this, alone, should be an indicator of how devious our central govt has become). The feds are no more than a monstrous tape worm leeching off their host (we now pay 60% of our earnings to support governments!). They will resist to the death any attempts to evict them.
Frankly, I’m all for nooses and guillotines.
Obama? He’s a big problem. Maybe not the main problem. But a most alarming one. A recently circulating email explains: http://snopes.com/politics/soapbox/vaknin.asp .
“vaknin” is a doctor of psychology. He reveals that what we have in the Oval Office is a narcissist of monstrous proportions.
He is self-consumed. Cares for nothing or anyone but himself. And ‘himself’ is merely an image; what he is perceived to be as opposed to what he accomplishes. These neurotics, therefore, hide much of their past which is not in accordance with what they wish to project.
That sound about right?
He’s got a brother in Kenya living on a dollar a day. He doesn’t even send his brother $30 a month to double his income (!) because he can see no benefit to himself.
THAT, to me, is extreme.
Politics attracts narcissists who need hollow praise (thus the hollow promises, phony smiles, etc.). Apparently Obama’s condition is an extreme one. Like Hitler’s and Stalin’s were.
Like Bunker Hill*, our stand, our veritable battle, will not be at Bunker Hill but in each state.
Unless that doesn’t work…..there are 10’s of millions willing to march and die if this attempt fails.
*actually fought on Breed’s Hill.
The petitions demanding obama provide proof, should be redirected, to every republican representative in office. The petition, instead of demanding obama’s proof, should instead demand the representative receiving it, demand obamas proof. Every republican representative should receive one. Demand this citizenship issue be taken care of immediately. Any representative not making a very public, loud, and fierce fight over this, will lose the support of all who’ve signed this petition, and any cance of re-election. We know the dems could give a s**t what we think. The judges are appointed for life. what leverage do we have over them? that only leaves republican representatives. We should demand all seeking another term, file cases in court. Make Public demands, often. Leave no doubt. this issue needs to be resolved, now. No body should be left to question what it is we want. It needs to be made clear. No proof has been provided. millions have been invested in keeping the evidence hidden. The courts have refused to do their job. The truth needs to be stated. loudly, publicly, as often as possible, by all republican representatives. Governers, senators, Representatives, anyone wanting another term. It should be clear. If every effort isn’t taken, if it isn’t made completely clear to all in America. If there’s any question in anyones mind, that this is the most important issue this representative is facing, needs to be answered. Anyone not answering those questions, may as well drop out, our votes aren’t for them. If anyone feels this might work, and understands how to make it happen, please run with it. The dems and courts may not respect us, or fear us. the republican representatives are all we’ve got. I feel if we can get them all united on this issue. if they flood the courts, if they flood the media, if they don’t back down, we can win this.
Dean
Thanks for your reply.
GOOOH offers no viable solution.
In fact, it fertilizes/ propagates the source of all of our governmental problems: ignoring the 10th amendment.
Our federal government (monstrously bloated/corrupt/domineering) got this way by passing legislations that blatantly violate the extremely limiting (on purpose to avoid the exact situation we now have) 10th amendment.
Little by little, they have (un-Constitutionally) usurped powers from the states.
Little by little, they have (un-Constitutionally) created powers for themselves that they were NOT to have.
Little by little, they have (un-Constitutionally) ignored checks and balances.
Little by little, they have (un-Constitutionally) passed legislations or issued edicts which revoke citizen rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
And We the People have allowed this either via apathy, ignorance or lack of viable recourse.
GOOOH apparently does not understand this. They ask followers to give opinions on problems that stem from illegal legislations. They ask “presidential candidates” if they would pass laws (to amend what they perceive as problems) that are beyond the authority of either the president or Congress! They ask scores of questions that are nearly ALL beyond the limitations imposed on our federal government by the Constitution!
So, rather than limit the federal government, they seek candidates that are of the same ilk as those we presently have that, either from ignorance or ignore-ance of our Constitution (which they swore to “preserve”!), feel that if THEY pass a law, WE must obey it. Period.
A concept presently being vigorously opposed by the 39 states that have thus far issued “sovereignty” papers demanding that the federal government “cease and desist”(AZ) from issuing legislations which they are not authorized to create! (these state Attorneys General recognize the problem!/GOOOH does not)
GOOOH does not understand what has caused our problem. So they most definitely are not the solution. Rather than seeking a government that abides by Constitutional restrains, they support a continuum of illegal laws to repair what they consider bad illegal laws!
The only realistic solution is to remove via election or otherwise* all candidates (all Democrats AND all Republicans) who have all displayed a propensity to NOT abide by the “law of the Land”, our Constitution (which they swore to “preserve and protect”, didn’t they?).
And require newly elected independent officials to NULL previous legislations and grants that do not conform with Constitutional limitations.
“An act repugnant to the Constitution is void.” John Marshall
This in itself would dwarf our federal government and expenditures to a fraction of its present dimensions.
EX: the Constitution does not authorize the federal govt to create a medical insurance company. Despite 75% opposition by We the People, they just did that anyway. Didn’t they?
Within 10 minutes of BHO’s signature on that pseudo-reform bill, 7 suits were filed in federal court protesting this very violation. (yes……10 minutes)
“Homeland Security” is/was blatantly illegal. They passed it anyway.
There are scores of others.
*N.B.: The Declaration of Independence suggests overthrow of governments that do not abide the will of the people. The Constitution does not. The Constitution is law. The Declaration is not. So should a violent situation evolve, be advised that you could be imprisoned (along with 10 million, 50 million others!).
As for me, I’ll do whatever it takes to take back our government. To re-create a govt of, by and for the People again. “Of”. “By”. And “For”. A concept originated with the Magna Carte centuries ago. And voiced most vehemently by our Constitution which was crafted to NOT allow an overbearing central government.
(do you think for one moment that our forefathers envisioned 60% taxation compounded by our now $50,000 per person deficit debt [which the Cato Institute feels has reached the point where it may NEVER be repaid/only interest payments forever]?????)
If they don’t tamper with election results (which they did in 2000 and 2004) we can fix this and make a strong, overwhelming statement: VOTE FOR ANY NON-DEM/NON-REP CANDIDATE (they’re two sides of the same coin).
FIGHT ORGANIZED CRIME…..VOTE THEM ALL OUT EVERYTIME.
Or your children will live to regret it…….
I believe the Liar-in-Chief, is a illegal alien.
?…Do you trust lawyers.
All but a few in DC are lawyers.
We the People can change this anytime we want.
The best idea I have seen is at http://www.goooh.com
Search the above site and YOU decide.
Spread the word, We can change congress in November.
What’s the big deal in showing anyone your birth certificate? I would have no problem providing my birth certificate? It’s not like there’s secret information on it like my social security number, or my address. Clearly something isn’t right
I’ve read this whole blog with great interest, and I discovered there is not a complete dealing with all aspects of establishing natural citizenship. I’m not expert on this, just have experience with a sibbling who was born abroad of American parents, and he is about the same age as Obama. This brother was registered in the other contry as being born of American parents and had to be documented in that country with the American Consulate. He found out as an adult that he had to have lived in the USA for 10 years prior to his 21st birthday, and that was the only requirement to meet to be a natural citizen. By piecing together the sum total of a few months here and a few months there, 10 years was documentable, so he was rightfully considered a natural US citizen. Incidently, he had to prove this in order for his children, two of whom were born abroad, to be considered natural USA citizens, too.
How does this apply to Obama? If he was born in Africa (proveable or not), to be a natural US citizen, he must have been registered as having been born of a US citizen (his mother) and have lived in the USA for 10 years before he turned 21. Did he? Is this all that is needed? I really don’t care to do the research because I don’t want him to qualify, but perhaps our reliable (tongue in cheek) Patrick or Dean (preferred) can find all kinds of stuff (credible? you be the judge).
Patrick, why do you quote Uncle Remus as Gospel? He’s a fictional character who talks to other fictional cartoon characters – I saw the movie. Spare us the fiction. I’m sure we can all quote sayings that suit our points of view, but that doesn’t make them applicable, true or acceptable. A credible debate judge would deduct points for that.
Thank you Dean for your useful and well-reasoned and written comments. They were easy to follow and I greatly enjoyed the sarcasm since it reflected my own point of view. You’ve convinced me that I should get involved in blogs, so add one to your list of achievements.
If people are so upset about this fabricated story of obama not being born in America, maybe they can talk their great savior into releasing the documents in question. Mccain wasted no time in releasing his documents, even though this accusation was even more laughable than jobs created or saved, especially the ones in districts that don’t exist. you may believe that obama didn’t hear rev rights words, or that there’s no problem with his speaking of the poor, bible clinging, gun toting people days after his just words speech. you may believe that all bad things are bushes fault.(our economy, ww1&2, vietnam, korea, all earthquakes,tornados,hurricanes, the fact that we all have to die. feel free to believe that if he wasn’t black, he wouldn’t be president. yes, affirmative action finally made it to the whitehouse. Believe what you want. I believe, if you actually believed obama was a good choice, and still think he’s doing a good job, you should lose your right to vote. you’re either to stupid, or incapable of seeing the truth, or to lazy to do a minimal amount of research. whatever the reason, we all have to pay, for you mistake. I stand by my original theory. our enemies love him, he’s the greatest terror attack against america ever. one day, you’ll have no other option than to admit I’m right. unfortunately, I to;d you do will be little consolation. thanks
And don’t throw your vote away on any political parties that the television news doesn’t recognize as viable. You can have your choice of Red or Blue. The odds are in our favor !
Linda is right ! Next time there is an election we can use the Diebold electronic voting machines and the television will tell us what the results are !
That’ll show ’em ! Then everything will be hunky dory again !
It’s so simple I don’t know why we didn’t think of that before!
Which hoaxes nick? The one that Barry Sotero is really Barack Obama (is there any documentation on his legal name change?) That Barry Sotero is really a natural born citizen seeing as he was all over the place and his records are all sealed? Or are you talking about that people who don’t believe that Barry Sotero as Barack Obama is really the President of the corporation that is known as the United States?
I can put that all to rest for you !
The pretty television gal said not to worry and it says Barack Obama IS Barry Sotero’s REAL name,and it says anyone who doesn’t think he is the President of the corporation the United States is whacko.
There you go nick !
You can rest easy now !
you F’in lying idiots posting HOAXES are pathetic
John and Linda, Snopes is no longer a reliable source for the truth. It has been found to have a liberal agenda. I’m surprise you havent heard about this.
I absolutely detest this labeling of people. We are all Americans and we had better stick together in order to remove ALL of these greedy traitors from office. WE (AMERICANS) have to change things even if it takes one ouster at a time. Get the word out to all the voters. Vote them all out. Start over. Clean slate. Let’s make a campaign to work on the worst offenders – of BOTH parties — and keep howling about it until the people listen.
Dean Larson is right on the money. The only way to get rid of these liberal homesteaders out of Washington is to vote them all out. Last Tuesday is just the beginning and I’m hoping that after next year’s election, more will be going home for good. Reid and company are probably shaking all their heads trying to figured out what happen. If it can happen in Ted Kennedy’s turf, it can happen anywhere. Hey Patrick, aren’t you gonna holler voter fraud?
WHO is SUPPOSEDLY “rich for life” after 1 term?
WHAT is your CREDIBLE evidence of this?
Patrick in California
Did eveyone notice the change in the lib’s demeanor when the bluest-of-the-blues (Massachusetts) went RED a few days ago? (they had to elect a moron to do it but they sent their message, didn’t they?)
Man! Everything is changing! What a difference a day makes!
If everytime we vote the incumbents out, keep them flip-flopping and unbalanced, maybe we’ll begin to see change.
Fight organized crime……
VOTE THEM ALL OUT EVERYTIME.
Put this in the window of your car. Spread the word….the idea….no more ‘regimes’. No more entrenched profiteering by our legislators. No more ‘buddy-system’.
(we’ll then need to demand an end to their rich-for-life-after-one-term retirement system)
If they won’t give us term-limitations (despite 80% favoring), we’ll just force it on them!
Don’t feel bad DeShawn, that’s why we have election. Sometimes we just get frustrated by what’s happening in our country, then someone who thinks he can do better comes along and made it even worst. Obama’s main objective to get elected was that our country need CHANGE. I think he’s doing a heck of a job from the get go. Gave away billions of tax payers money to companies that are in trouble because of their own inefficiencies, pretending to create jobs by handing out more money and even more money so people can buy a new car. We already know that the american people are the ones who is going to pay for all of this, then we have Patrick here who thinks he has the answer for everything by quoting and citing all those BS. I think most people who voted for Obama are probably banging their heads on the wall after witnessing the first year of impending doom for our country. Obama will be a one time president, I just hope that more politicians can see what’s coming and stop him from really doing more harm to our country.
To “Patrick”:
You sound like a fool. Obama promised a TRANSPARENT administration. It has been the most opaque that I can remember. This man is SHADY!!! I voted for bama b/c I wanted to see a black man (albeit half) in office. Now I regret that decision, b/c in all honesty that is the only reason he made it in, and I feel cheated. Well, that and the fact that ACORN produced false votes. Get off the democrat train, and start thinking for yourself! I wish we could ship people like you to another country. Well, I guess this is partly my fault for voting too…
Non-partisan
RICK: I agree. The only thing that made any sense was that, as usual, he disagreed with me. After that….God knows.
I think he took some “debate” criticisms too seriously, did some research, and has now launched a collegiate debate forum. Only problem is a) it’s nonsensical, b) it’s unrelated, c) he has no opponent.
I can’t tell if he wants forgiveness of polititians related to my two quotations or because of the ‘birther’ issue. I’m not too sure HE knows….
Whatever…
This blog does seem to have dead-ended with: we feel entitled to the TRUTH.
a) we want proof-positive (friend-or-foe of BHO matters not / that’s not the issue).
b) there’s piles and piles of material littering the internet; truth or fiction we cannot tell.
c) what everyone wants is a total, scholarly, non-partisan investigation.
d) our Congress and courts will not give it to us:
1) because they’re stupid,
2) they’re distracted,
3) they don’t want the truth to come out,
4) it has nothing to do with their getting re-elected so piss on it.
We fear #3, we suspect both #2 and #4, we’re angry that it’s probably #1.
That about cover it?
Rick- most of us figured it is all BS. We also guessed that he has too much time or no wife or friends to allow him so much idle time to espouse his so called views.
Could someone please help me to understand exactly what patricks point is. I’m having trouble trying to figure out what all these quotes, and definitions have to do with obamas citizenship. Is this supposed to convince me that i should believe what someone tells me, or writes, over my own eyes? maybe I’m just not smart enough to see it from patricks perspective, or maybe I just can’t get my head that far up my a**. please patrick, explain to me why it makes sense that we should provide evidence that obama is not a natural born citizen. How do we get this proof when obama refuses to provide it? why does obama refuse to provide it? Doesn’t that make you a little curious? whats he got to hide? If you don’t see a problem with this, then you’re either a liar, or are so incapable of reading people, wait, that’s it, that explains it. that’s why you seem to spend so much time in books. you don’t understand human nature. unfortunately, this is one subject you can’t learn in books. this is something you either have or not. It’s sad really, everyone is having to suffer, because so many people like you, are incapable of reading people. incapable of seeing obama, pelosi, reid, frank and the rest of them, for what they really are. The fact that you can’t understand our outrage is proof of this.
I STRONGLY DISAGREE with Dean.
“Politicians” are PEOPLE too, aren’t they?
To me, IF they are wrong or misguided then WE should TEACH them HOW & WHERE they are wrong & guide them in the RIGHT direction.
TEACH – 1 a : to cause to know something b : to cause to know how c : to accustom to some action or attitude d : to cause to know the disagreeable consequences of some action , 2 : to guide the studies of, 3 : to impart the knowledge of , 4 a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known and accepted , 5 : to conduct instruction regularly in
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/teach
If WE resort to or counsel MACHEVELLIAN methods, tools, tactics & strategies, HOW would we be ANY “better” than WHAT we FIGHT?
COUNSEL – 1 a : advice given especially as a result of consultation b : a policy or plan of action or behavior, 2 : deliberation, consultation, 3 a archaic : purpose b : guarded thoughts or intentions, 4 a plural counsel (1) : a lawyer engaged in the trial or management of a case in court (2) : a lawyer appointed to advise and represent in legal matters an individual client or a corporate and especially a public body b : consultant 2
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/counsel
MACHIAVELLIAN – 1 : of or relating to Machiavelli or Machiavellianism
2 : suggesting the principles of conduct laid down by Machiavelli; specifically : marked by cunning, duplicity, or bad faith
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/MACHIAVELLIAN
METHOD – 1 : a procedure or process for attaining an object: as a (1) : a systematic procedure, technique, or mode of inquiry employed by or proper to a particular discipline or art (2) : a systematic plan followed in presenting material for instruction b (1) : a way, technique, or process of or for doing something (2) : a body of skills or techniques, 2 : a discipline that deals with the principles and techniques of scientific inquiry, 3 a : orderly arrangement, development, or classification : plan b : the habitual practice of orderliness and regularity, 4 capitalized : a dramatic technique by which an actor seeks to gain complete identification with the inner personality of the character being portrayed
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/method
TOOL – 1 a : a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task b (1) : the cutting or shaping part in a machine or machine tool (2) : a machine for shaping metal : machine tool, 2 a : something (as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession b : an element of a computer program (as a graphics application) that activates and controls a particular function c : a means to an end d often vulgar : penis, 3 : one that is used or manipulated by another, 4 plural : natural ability
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tool
TACTIC – 1 : a device for accomplishing an end, 2 : a method of employing forces in combat
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tactic
STRATEGY – 1 a (1) : the science and art of employing the political, economic, psychological, and military forces of a nation or group of nations to afford the maximum support to adopted policies in peace or war (2) : the science and art of military command exercised to meet the enemy in combat under advantageous conditions b : a variety of or instance of the use of strategy, 2 a : a careful plan or method : a clever stratagem b : the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal, 3 : an adaptation or complex of adaptations (as of behavior, metabolism, or structure) that serves or appears to serve an important function in achieving evolutionary success
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/STRATEGY
Especially WHEN there are PEACEFUL means for US to proceed?
PEACE – 1 : a state of tranquillity or quiet: as a : freedom from civil disturbance b : a state of security or order within a community provided for by law or custom , 2 : freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions, 3 : harmony in personal relations, 4 a : a state or period of mutual concord between governments b : a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, 5 —used interjectionally to ask for silence or calm or as a greeting or farewell — at peace : in a state of concord or tranquillity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peace
And they are open to OUR ADVICE.
ADVICE – 1 : recommendation regarding a decision or course of conduct : counsel 2 : information or notice given —usually used in plural, 3 : an official notice concerning a business transaction
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advice
Were we not all specifically RECRUITED & CHOSEN for OUR INTELLECTS?
IF we do so, should NOT people JUDGE US by the FRUITS of OUR efforts?
And HOW could we ever JUSTIFY OUR MACHIAVELLIAN ACTIONS if we act given our RELIGIONS & BELIEFS if WE did so?
JUSTIFY – 1 a : to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable b (1) : to show to have had a sufficient legal reason (2) : to qualify (oneself) as a surety by taking oath to the ownership of sufficient property, 2 a archaic : to administer justice to b archaic : absolve c : to judge, regard, or treat as righteous and worthy of salvation
3 a : to space (as lines of text) so that the lines come out even at the margin b : to make even by justifying
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/JUSTIFY
BELIEF – 1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing, 2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group, 3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief
RELIGION – 1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance, 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices, 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness, 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/RELIGION
SPIRITUAL – 1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal , 2 a : of or relating to sacred matters b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal , 3 : concerned with religious values, 4 : related or joined in spirit , 5 a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spiritual
And WHY would anyone ever TRUST us IF we do so?
TRUST – 1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed
2 a : dependence on something future or contingent : hope b : reliance on future payment for property (as merchandise) delivered : credit , 3 a : a property interest held by one person for the benefit of another b : a combination of firms or corporations formed by a legal agreement; especially : one that reduces or threatens to reduce competition, 4 archaic : trustworthiness 5 a (1) : a charge or duty imposed in faith or confidence or as a condition of some relationship (2) : something committed or entrusted to one to be used or cared for in the interest of another b : responsible charge or office c : care, custody
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Trust
And IF WE did so, would WE not become DICTATORS & AUTHORITRARIANS and the WORST ENEMIES of FREEDOM & LIBERTY?
DICTORIAL – 1 a : of, relating to, or befitting a dictator, b : ruled by a dictator, 2 : oppressive to or arrogantly overbearing toward others
synonyms dictatorial, magisterial, dogmatic, doctrinaire, oracular mean imposing one’s will or opinions on others. dictatorial stresses autocratic, high-handed methods and a domineering manner . magisterial stresses assumption or use of prerogatives appropriate to a magistrate or schoolmaster in forcing acceptance of one’s opinions . dogmatic implies being unduly and offensively positive in laying down principles and expressing opinions . doctrinaire implies a disposition to follow abstract theories in framing laws or policies affecting people . oracular implies the manner of one who delivers opinions in cryptic phrases or with pompous dogmatism .
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictatorial
AUTHORITRARIAN – 1 : of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority , 2 : of, relating to, or favoring a concentration of power in a leader or an elite not constitutionally responsible to the people
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authoritarian
Do WE wish to become WHORES & PROSTITUTES instead of BENENITING ALL HUMANITY?
WHORE – 1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : prostitute; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money
3 : a venal or unscrupulous person
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/WHORE
PROSTITUTE – 1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money, 2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : debase
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prostitute
And since we have ALL AGREED to work together SHOULDN’T we get to WORK & FUFILL OUR common PURPOSE to provide EDUCATION & LEADERSHIP to ELEVATE the WORLD’S CONCIOUSNESS toward INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, HUMANITARIANISM & PROSPERITY?
And since most of YOU appear accustomed to “cloak & dagger” & appear to know alot more about me than I do about YOU, it would be very helpful IF there were a way for me to get to know you better.
Patrick in California
“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”–Thomas Jefferson
JERRY: Good one! Hah!
(apparently Sarah aroused Patrick’s philosophic sensibilities!)
(except rather than cite contemplative thoughts from Confucious, Patrick’s ramblings just continue to Confuse-us!)
(arf!)
PATRICK: 2 quotations
“What you need to realize, gentlemen, is that people don’t start wars.
Polititians start wars.” Dr. Carl Sagan
“Now I know what a statesman is; he’s a dead polititian.
We need more statesmen.” Bob Edwards
I was right, someone must have hit Patrick in the head and realigned his senses. Now he is talking about pooling our resources together and come up with a solution. Is’nt that what we’re trying to do all this time?
Patrick found a dictionary. Hurray.
We NEED to STOP this MADNESS NOW.
I KNOW that we have ALL been forced to make difficult DECISIONS to save our HUMAN CIVILIZATIONS.
HUMAN – Function: adjective, Etymology: Middle English humain, from Anglo-French, from Latin humanus; akin to Latin homo human being — more at homage, Date: 14th century1 : of, relating to, or characteristic of humans, 2 : consisting of humans, 3 a : having human form or attributes b : susceptible to or representative of the sympathies and frailties of human nature
HUMAN – Main Entry: human, Function: noun, Date: circa 1533 bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man; broadly : hominid
HUMAN BEING – Function: noun, Date: 1751: human
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/human
But to be HUMAN means to CARE about OTHERS & CIVILIZATION means to work TOGETHER to CREATE a BETTER life, DOESN’T it?
CIVILIZATION – Date: 1772, 1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place
2 : the process of becoming civilized, 3 a : refinement of thought, manners, or taste b : a situation of urban comfort
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilization
IF that is TRUE, then there is NOTHING HUMAN & NOTHING CIVILIZED about what we are doing here.
We all RECOGNIZE the FACT that each of US are very PASSIONATE about our BELIEFS & WE should RESPECT that.
Just as EVERYONE should REALIZE that we have LIMITED RESOURCES & very LIMITED TIME.
Can we just stand here & watch people DIE over BS while we do NOTHING except SQUABBLE over our TACTICS?
ISN’T the MOMENT we stop fighting for each other, the MOMENT we LOSE OUR HUMANITY?
HUMANITY: Date: 14th century, 1 : the quality or state of being humane
2 a : the quality or state of being human b plural : human attributes or qualities , 3 plural : the branches of learning (as philosophy, arts, or languages) that investigate human constructs and concerns as opposed to natural processes (as in physics or chemistry) and social relations (as in anthropology or economics)
4 : the human race : the totality of human beings
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humanity
ISN’T OUR REAL OBLIGATION to SAVE the HUMAN RACE & NOT to just BLINDLY follow some “plan”?
Have we LOST OUR MINDS?
We have little time left. Do WE want to be RESPONSIBLE for the EXTINCTION of the HUMAN RACE?
Can WE handle that?
There are MANY PEOPLE who are responsible for US being here.
They are the ONE’S who CONNECTED the DOTS for US & we all OWE them OUR LIVES.
Do WE “want” their DEATHS to be in VAIN?
Many of them were OUR FRIENDS and/or MENTORS.
Everyone of them will have DIED in VAIN IF we start OUR FUTURE with an ACT of CRUELTY.
WHAT will WE tell OUR CHILDREN? And WHAT will THEY tell theirs?
Many of us have come from DIFFERENT backgrounds & had DIFFERENT teachers who used DIFFERENT strategies.
And the COST of OUR CONTINUING EDUCATION is UNIMAGINABLE.
And WE have ALL faced many ADVERSITIES that have FORGED us into who & what we are.
“Adversity is another way to measure the greatness of individuals. I never had a crisis that didn’t make me stronger.”-–Lou Holtz
ALL of us are STILL PAYING for it & will FOREVER OWE a DEBT of GRATITUDE to to those others.
And DON’T we have a DUTY to do so?
DUTY – 1 : conduct due to parents and superiors : respect, 2 a : obligatory tasks, conduct, service, or functions that arise from one’s position (as in life or in a group) b (1) : assigned service or business (2) : active military service (3) : a period of being on duty
3 a : a moral or legal obligation b : the force of moral obligation, 4 : tax; especially : a tax on imports, 5 a : work 1a b (1) : the service required (as of an electric machine) under specified conditions (2) : functional application : use (3) : use as a substitute
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duty
HAVEN’T all of us made OUR MISTAKES and/or have been GUILTY of MISCONDUCT at some time or another?
1 : to blunder in the choice of , 2 a : to misunderstand the meaning or intention of : misinterpret b : to make a wrong judgment of the character or ability of, 3 : to identify wrongly : confuse with another , intransitive verb
: to be wrong
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mistake
MISCONDUCT – 1 : mismanagement especially of governmental or military responsibilities, 2 : intentional wrongdoing; specifically : deliberate violation of a law or standard especially by a government official : malfeasance, 3 a : improper behavior b : adultery
4 : a penalty (as in ice hockey) for improper behavior or abusive language (as toward an official)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misconduct
For example, just RECENTLY I was FALSELY ACCUSED, WASN’T I?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tips_and_tricks/message/17436
And when you THINK about it, haven’t most of US STILL LEARNED many of the SAME LESSONS?
“Truth is more of a stranger than fiction.” — Mark Twain
Should NOT OUR PURPOSE be to provide EDUCATION & LEADERSHIP to ELEVATE the WORLD’S CONCIOUSNESS toward INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, HUMANITARIANISM & PROSPERITY?
“The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.”– Aristotle
INSTEAD of squabbling about PETTY DIFFERENCES?
Regardless of our SUPPOSED “color” or “creed” or “beliefs” or whatever MINOR differences we “may” have, ISNT the SIMPLE TRUTH that we are all HUMAN beings & we REALLY WANT the SAME THINGS?
Just IMAGINE what we can ACCOMPLISH if we STOPPED “fighting” & POOLED our EFFORTS?
ISN’T it TIME for a CEASEFIRE?
Patrick in California
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”–Galileo Galilei
Yeah, ROMY….I noticed that, too.
As soon as Sarah lit into him his demeanor abruptly changed to “Gee, Sarah…” and he began to apologize and make excuses. No more “BS!” ‘s. No attacks. He seemed to have stuck his tail betwen his legs and retreated.
Does he have a female issue? A dominant mother or older sister or both? (I still suspect he’s just a kid).
Possibly he’s just gone to the landfill for his monthly enema (that could take days).
OKAY EVERYBODY ! YOU CAN COME BACK NOW ! PATRICK’S GONE !
Boy, I would really love to have Dean as my commander if whenever we are going on a military mission. Reading everything he cited regarding that slippery liquid that is now costing us an and a leg really made a lot a sense. Sometimes we just get so mad at what’s happening in our country that we always overlooked the obvious. I guess we just have to wait and see what happens, but I also pray to God (is it okay with you folks?) that this president does’nt do anymore damage to our great nation. He’s definitely doing a good job at that. And what’s really surprising to me was that I have not heard anything at all from Patrick during the past few days. He did’nt try to dispute anything that Dean cited, I wonder what happen? Could it be that someone hit him on the head and realigned his way of reasoning?I’ll wait for his BS comment.
I was mearly pointing out that there is a difference between a sermon, and a parable…
I was being staight forward with you, you were avoiding giving any concreate evidence what so ever.
snopes, wikapedia, and all those other sites do not count in the “real world.”
All I am saying is that if you are going to argue something, please have the CREDIBLE facts, or evidence availible to share with everyone else, do not just say you have it.
I am not saying I believe any of this, I just think when people argue or debate a topic, it should be done in such a way that it is respectable, believible, and honorable.
Geeeeeeeeee! Sounds like this Patrick person is qualifying himself for a Czar position.
Who bought Snopes????????????????????????? Is it an arm of the people who want to dispel truthful but negative information?
To paraphrase what Romy stated: We ARE the greatest nation on the face of the earth. We just happen to have one of the worst governments.
The oil? (it’s way off topic but here we go….)
For ten years nearly every event in our country was orchestrated with OIL in mind. No coincidences. Nothing accidental. Purposefully orchestrated.
In Carter’s administration his Sec of State was this man by the name Brzezinski.
He wrote a book called “The Grand Chessboard” wherein he contended that the country that rules the world in the 21st century will HAVE to control the oil (makes sense). And to do so, they must wrest control of the Persian Gulf (makes sense). Saudi Arabia (our buddies over there), Iraq (which we now have), Iran (we’re posturing), Yemen (we’re really posturing) and Afghanistan (which we now have/Afghanistan primarily to get to the huge reserves up in the -stans [I don’t know…Ubekistan, Kubekistan, whatever they are]). But in order to do so we would need “a Pearl Harbor scenario” to motivate the American people, Brzezinski stated.
1992: “Defense Planning Guidance”: “Prepare to use unilateral military force with or without allies to prevent emergence of any rival and to secure access to vital raw materials primarily Persian Gulf oil.” The process of evolution is likely to be a long one “absent some catastrohic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor.” This is commonly referred to by the author’s name: The Wolfowicz Doctrine
In 1997 “The Project for the New American Century” (Wolfowicz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, a Bush, Abrams, Armitage, Perle, Khalizad, Bolton, et al.) wrote a letter to Clinton urging him to move against Iraq. But that we would first need “a Pearl Harbor scenario”. Nothing happened. (“Crap! We’re gonna have to do it ourselves!”)
Along comes 2000: Gears are enmeshed via a stolen election. (the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction in a federal election)(did you know that Katherine Harris was not only the Atty Gen for the State of Florida [responsible for counting the votes] but also GW’s Campaign Manager for the State of Florida?)(what are the odds?). Google Clinton Eugene Harris (no relation)(Katherine is now an Ambassador!)(woo-woo!).
Along comes 2001: We all know what happened. And here’s a HUGE coincidence: on 9-11 Daddy Bush was the liason to the Royal Saudi Family for the Carlyle Group (highly secretive/arms/oil), GW Bush was President thanks to his brother Jeb Bush who most conveniently was governor of Florida. Where was Marvin? He had just stepped down as a VP for the security company for The World Trade Centers (SecureTech?). (What are the odds?)
So…..17 of the 19 terrorists as well as Osama bin Laden himself are all Saudi’s (the bin Laden family is chummy with the same Royal Family that Daddy Bush is chummy with)(what are the odds?). So do we attack Saudi Arabia?
No….we go next door after those in power here repeatedly lie to us that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction(no), that they tried to get nuclear materials out of Africa(no), that they harbored al Kaida (Iraq hated al Kaida!), that they had reactor tubes (lamp poles), Condwhoreleesa Rice lied to us, they got Colin Powell to lie to the UN (when he found out, he quit), they got Tenet to lie to us (“slam dunk!”). Nobody was buying any of it.
I guess they finally said ‘screw it!’ and GW launched the war against Iraq anyway. Do you remember what he called it? Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL)(it was later renamed). And the rape began…supposedly going after Hussein, we laid waste to the entire country. (Greg Palast [BBC] is a good source for further investigation. He also did “The Bush Family Fortune” where he uncovers that the bin Ladens had invested in one of GW’s 3 failed oil companies)(what are the odds?)(remember how GW adamantly resisted any investigation into 9-11? Over and over. Finally, he agreed and set up a panel. Headed by Henry Kissinger. Until it was exposed that one of Henry’s clients was….lo and behold….the bin Laden family!)(what are the odds?)
2004: another stolen election (right here in Ohio where I live). Google Dr. Stephen Freeman, U of Pa. Studying exit polls he found EVERY ‘swing’ state swung monstously to GW. And there was a huge anomaly in Ohio, which gave him the election. His calculations yielded: a 99.9997% certainty the election was thrown. And GW stays in office (with Cheney, one of Daddy Bush’s long-time buddies from the CIA, who I think was the brains behind that Administration.)(keep in mind that Daddy, Cheney and Rumsfeld all came from the CIA)(what are the odds?)
The plan is…quite simply….to use all THEIR oil first. And it’s going fast / the whole world is drinking from that Middle East cup. We’ll save OUR oil for when they run out. THIS is why we import so much.
By-the-by, Brzezinski happened to write another book. “Between Two Ages” in which he calls for “deliberate management of the American future”. “a community of nations” And “world government”. That New World Order you’ve heard about from Daddy Bush, GW, Reagan, Cheney. A world run by banks, corporations and governments in collusion. Pretty much ‘1984’ fascism. Serfs who exist to support the governing structure (we’re moving toward that here and now, aren’t we? We don’t pay taxes on stamps anymore but on EVERYTHING else).
If you really want to poo-poo your knickers, listen to Dr. Michael Hudson. World reknowned banking economist. He’s consulted with the World Bank, the IMF, and numerous countries. Obviously quite elderly but sharp as the proverbial tack. It’s heavy (get a mug of coffee) and he doesn’t deal with specifics but concepts. You will get goosebumps when you begin to recognize things that have been happening in the banking world here as well as the ultra-ultra secretive Bilderberg (he never mentions them by name)(hint: creation of inescapable debt at all levels).
http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/50059
It’s all about oil and that “deliberate management of the American future”. It’s unfolding before our very eyes……
“The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That’s easy…..
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked….
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.”
Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
That “Pearl Harbor scenario”? 9-11? Look for yourself….there’s stuff everywhere. “Loose Change’. ‘Zeitgeist’. Google Kevin Ryan. ‘Scholars for Truth’. Keep in mind that if any one part of that day was ‘rigged’, everything that day was ‘rigged’. Right?
Start with the Pentagon. How did a plane with a 240′ wingspan fit into a 16′ hole? Why no engines, no landing gear, no wings, no seats….no bodies? Why doesn’t the plane appear in the famous video? Why was there a 36″ turbine blade in the wreckage when that plane had three 54” turbines? How did an aluminum nose penetrate 6 reinforced concrete walls?
LOOK! It’s out there. Just look…..live videos, interviews with police and firemen, people who were there. Interviews with experts. (start with ‘Loose Change’)
One possible escape: VOTE EVERYONE OUT EVERYTIME. (if they’ll let us) No exceptions. And if you can help it, no Dems, no Reps. (two sides to the same coin/same agenda)
I shall take my leave to make way for everyone’s favorite…..Patrick! ( The ‘go-to’ expert of ALL things!)(God must have Patrick’s phone number!) so he can prove himself to be, once again, a complete ass. (“BS” Dean is so full of”BS!” that his “BS!” is “BS!”!!!) Truth be told, I wish to God this WAS all BS…..
Gee Sarah, I said it was a PARABLE, DIDN’T I.
And I did NOT claim to be a “journalist”, DID I?
In FACT, I don’t claim to be “Politically Correct” & specifically said that “I get straight to the POINT & provide ample EVIDENCE to BACK UP what I say.” And IF I see something as being BS I say so & show the REASONS WHY I feel that way. It’s called being STRAIGHT FORWARD
Nor did I ARGUE about taxing a persons income. IN FACT I exposed the section of the Internal Revenue Code that are used to FRAUDULENTLY to get people to pay income tax.
And I see that you have following my posts on Yahoo Groups. Too bad my TACTICS are designed to cut through BS & do NOTHING against FACTS & EVIDENCE. Nice try though.
Patrick in California
“It isn’t the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop.”-Unknown
Patrick,
The Sermon on the Mount was just that, a Sermon!
A parable by deffinition
“: a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle” -merriam webster
Further more, If you are a journalist, or even have had to speak in public, you should know that it is infact considered distateful, and rude to swear in any kind of orration, or writen work. This does not just go for Patrick, but all who cannot find a better adjective!
If you want to be seen as intelligent, and taken seriously, than act accordingly, thank you.
I do disagree with Patrick on a number of issues, but if you want to argue that it is in fact alright to tax a persons income, PLEASE cite the constition and not the IRS! They are simply a government agency. They hold no clout when it comes to making the rule of the land.
And yes, I would have to agree with Dean, and Jerry and all the rest when I say that you Patrick have stuck your foot in your mouth thoughout the course of this conversation, by way of contradictions, and failure to remember what it is that you yourself argued.
Romy, I agree completely. I can hardly wait for sopme more BS from Patrick. He doesn’t know his a** from a hole in the ground.
Patrick can cite all the legality of these and the constitutionality of that, but the fact remains that if we don’t do something about those crooked politicians, mainly hardline liberal democrats, I’m afraid we are heading for the worst. We have proven to the entire world how great our country is and its people time and time again. I remember when I was doing recruiting duties for the Army, I was approached by two men citing hatefull things about the US and its military and that our country is nothing. My respond to them was, “compare to what”? With those few words they just looked at me and walked away. I’ve been to other countries before and let me tell you, there’s nothing better than the good old US of A.
And to all environmentalist who are worried about global warming, air pollution and energy independence all I can say is, “are you willing to go back to horse and buggy, no tv’s, computers and all the high tech gadgets that are making our life really exciting”? I don’t think so, we so much oil in our own country that we don’t even have to buy them from those arab countries. But no, we can’t risk ruining the wildlife and destroy a couple of endangered species of rodents. And yet it’s okay for other countries to ruin theirs by digging all the oils out of the ground. Hello people, the last time I checked, Saudi Arabia and all those oil producing country are still on planet earth. Whether we got our oil from the Arabs or we dig them out of our own well, the end results will be the same. We complain every time the price of gasoline goes up, let’s go to Alaska and get the oil out and say goodbye to the arabs.
Sadly, people simply not being able to communicate with each other is NOT the problem here.
Although there is parable for what is going on in the Bible.
The SERMON ON THE MOUNT.
Patrick in California
“Look Rocky, never once do my fingers leave my hand!” — Bullwinkle
Anybody remember the Old Testament story of the Tower of Babel? We’re there.
Patrick–all the BS is in your posts. I haven’t heard anything that I agree with.
It is amazing the lengths some people will go to in order to TRY to “discredit” me. Especially since I posted LINKS to the specific sections of the IRC that show the FRAUD.
Strange that Dean did NOT post any links to his SUPPOSED “evidence”.
And is funny that Dean brings up the 10th amendment as ALLEGED “evidence” that Congress is SUPPOSEDLY “passing laws over which it has no jurisdiction” when many applications of FEDERAL law are based on the COMMERCE & SUPREMACY clauses.
Now I’m sure that following this Dean will probably post a number of “thanks” & “glowing reviews” about him under an ALIAS or two to SUPPOSEDLY give him “credibility” before he engages in more AD HOMINEM arguments.
That’s OK, because the people who actually read the links I have supplied will see thru his BS.
Patrick in California
“It isn’t the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop.”-Unknown
As usual, Patrick, yourhead is up your ass……
You moronically cite IRS code as the basis for your argument! (I keep coming back to this blog because the immensity of your stupidity is only exceeded by the size of your mouth.)
CONSTITUTIONALLY, an individual income tax is illegal.
The XVIth Amendment, passed (debatable inasmuch as different states signed differently worded bills) in 1913 along with the corrupt and ruinous Federal Reserve act*, states: “The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”
However…..EVERY Supreme Court ruling has decided that “income” means profits.
And individuals, by Supreme Court definition, do not have profits; only corporations do.
Individuals labor-for-pay is an exchange. At least according to the Supreme Court……
But what do they know when compared to the towering intellect of the likes of Patrick? Apparently this towering intellect is unaware or disputes that “Any act of the legislature, repugnant to the Constitution, is void.” John Marshal. (WTF does John Marshal know?)
ASIDE: One of the least known Constitutional provisions is the Xth Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” In other words, if it’s not specifically granted to the federal govt by the Constitution, it’s NOT allowed. Congress violates this amendment daily passing laws over which it has no jurisdiction. These laws are in effect only due to ensuing action. Technically, they are null and void. But I digress….
This is why I suggested watching “Freedom to Fascism” on-line. Director Aaron Russo (“Trading Places”, “The Rose”) created this work prior to his death. It’s a documentary which interviews IRS and ex-IRS employees (who resigned once they found the truth /many are now activists). There’s a most interesting court case in Illinois where the jury asked the judge: show us the law this man broke.
He didn’t because he couldn’t.
Which is the crux of the entire argument.
This documentary further delves into an explanation of The Federal Reserve (it is no more a part of our federal government than Federal Express). It’s a printing company owned by banks. They print a $20 bill for, who knows, 10 cents? But our government has to pay them $20. That’s a pretty nice gig, isn’t it?
Ultra secretive. (like most banking / i.e.: The Bilderberg)
Individual taxation exists entirely due to the mafiosa-type enforcement by the IRS. (that “ensuing action” mentioned above applied to an un-Constitutional edict.)
But PLEASE…don’t take my word for it. Watch the documentary. (most interesting)
(I certainly have strayed from the stated topic, haven’t I? The OBAMA-NABLE SNOWJOB.)(like that?)(heh, heh!)(you heard it here first!)
Jerry: I think you were correct regarding Patrick’s “lonely life”. I think he’s on the internet because he has no friends (small wonder). So he comes here to expand that network.
Wife? I think not….. I think what we have here is an overly-indulged adolescent mommy-boy. He tantrums (“BS!”), resorts to name-calling, and shouts (use of caps) whenever he can’t lucidly provide argument. He grasps at anything, no matter how tangental or biased, that supports his misguided opinions. Notice, too, that everyone is wrong except Patrick, regardless of the facts. What does this remind you of?
Methinks we have an infantile 14 year-old in our adult blog…..
Or a liberal (they’re often indistinguishable).
“He knows nothing; he thinks he knows everything—that points to a political career.” Shaw
* Upon signing the Federal Reserve Act, Woodrow Wilson mourned: “I fear I have ruined my country…”. Which he did.
Look further , if you wish. Today the Fed is run mostly by Goldman-Sachs, whose ex-employees run many departments of our government.
In one article I read (but could not re-find) it said all the monies going from our Treasury to the Fed go through G-S which gets a ‘skim’.
Supposedly, a federal employee, noticing this proliferation of G-S people in our govt, jestingly commented that it was almost like Goldman-Sachs was a division of our government.
The reply?
“I believe you have that backwards…”
Patrick , you must live a lonely life. If you are married, your wife should want a divorce. You spend all of your time spouting your diatribe dribble. You make me sick. We will get all of the Dems out of office in the 2010 & 2012 elections and take back our country from the ILLEGAL & CRIMINALS in this administration. And that covers hundreds of people.
BS “claims” like the income tax is unconstitutional get people in trouble.
It is CONSTITUTIONAL & in most cases it is being UNCONSTITUTIONALLY being MISAPPLIED based on the BS PRESUMPTION that we are INDIVIDUALS who have RECIEVED the REQUIRED legal notice & those for whom WITHHOLDING are REQUIRED.
26 CFR 1.1-1…In general, the tax is payable upon the basis of returns rendered by persons liable therefor (subchapter A (sections 6001 and following), chapter 61 of the Code) or at the source of the income by withholding. [rest omitted]
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/aprqtr/26cfr1.1-1.htm
26 CFR 31.6001-6 Notice by district director requiring returns, statements, or the keeping of records.
The district director may require any person, by notice served upon him, to make such returns, render such statements, or keep such specific records as will enable the district director to determine whether or not such person is liable for any of the taxes to which the regulations in this part have application.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=de87314e866de9fe6728f4c7589924f1&rgn=div8&view=text&node=26:15.0.1.1.1.7.16.6&idno=26
26 USC 3402. Income tax collected at source
(a) Requirement of withholding
(1) In general
Except as otherwise provided in this section, every employer making payment of wages shall deduct and withhold upon such wages a tax determined in accordance with tables or computational procedures prescribed by the Secretary. [REST OMITTED]
…
n) Employees incurring no income tax liability
Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an employer shall not be required to deduct and withhold any tax under this chapter upon a payment of wages to an employee if there is in effect with respect to such payment a withholding exemption certificate (in such form and containing such other information as the Secretary may prescribe) furnished to the employer by the employee certifying that the employee—(1) incurred no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his preceding taxable year, and
(2) anticipates that he will incur no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his current taxable year.
The Secretary shall by regulations provide for the coordination of the provisions of this subsection with the provisions of subsection (f).
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00003402—-000-.html
26 USC 7701. Definitions
(a) When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof—
…
(16) Withholding agent
The term “withholding agent” means any person required to deduct and withhold any tax under the provisions of section 1441, 1442, 1443, or 1461.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00007701—-000-.html
Patrick in California
“It ain’t what ya don’t know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin’ on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain’t so.” — Uncle Remus
DON: thank you for the kind words.
In fact, there have been numerous such occasions in the past.
Perhaps the most famous being the question of elligiblity of Chester A. Arthur (bumped from V-P to Presidency/assassination).
Also questioned were Goldwater, Romney and, recently, John McCain (born outside canal zone in Panama).
All were resolved. (Wikipedia)
The fact that BHO has not come forth with bona fide proof would lead one to believe that what He has is one of the birth forms NOT recognized as ‘proof’. (see link in my first epistle) I see his lack of forthright disclosure as damning. And yet, one more campaign promise (“transparency”) defenestrated.
What is more disturbing, in my mind, is the absolute lack of concern by either the House or the Senate; our Congress of un-representative representatives.
These usurpers, our self-ordained royalty, either have no KNOWLEDGE of our Constitution or CHOOSE TO VIOLATE IT daily with laws they have no authority to pass (such as the medical bill which, in effect, creates an insurance company (with mandatory enrollment!) / I now refer to it with my email friends as the “Obama-nable Snowjob”). It is THEY who allow suspension of OUR Constitutional rights via illegal legislation or, more abhorrably, Executive Orders from the President (who the HELL do these people think they are??)(dumb question: they think they’re our rulers not, as our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution clearly state, the other way around).
We are of like-mind, Don, in concluding that the only way to send a clear message….an unmistakeable edict from We the People….is to vote them all out everytime. NO EXCEPTIONS! There may be some good ones but they haven’t been able to solve the problem. So we must throw the babies out with the bathwater.
I read once that a survey suggested that over 80% of We the People want term limitations. But Congress doesn’t. So we don’t have it. Then it is up to us to give it TO them.
To go one further, do NOT vote for the Big 2 parties if possible.. They, quite obviously, are in lock-step; in effect a 1-party system masquerading as a 2-party system. (they know this and think we don’t)
Let them know that we want: The Constitution, the whole Constitution, and nothing but the Constitution! So HELP US, GOD!
———————————————-oOo——————————————–
Fight organized crime…
VOTE THEM ALL OUT EVERYTIME !
(if they’ll let us)
———————————————-oOo———————————————
God help them if they don’t….
Suggestion: make a window sticker for your car with the above sentiment. Let others know that they are not alone. That there IS a solution. Spread the word.
Here is our situation: we pay a huge tax on our income (Constitutionally illegal/you need to see”Freedom to Fascism”). With what’s left, we pay taxes on: gasoline (huge!), tobacco (huger!), liquor, property taxes (huge!), tax on our electric bills, our gas bills, our cable bills, our phone bills, our cellphone bills. After that onslaught, we then pay a huge sales tax on virtually anything we buy. If you have anything left and you put it in the bank, you pay tax on any interest acrued. Plus dozens of taxes we ‘eat’ when buying a product.
And this government has left for our children $12 trillion dollars of debt. In case you’re curious, thats a dime (that dime BHO swore the medical plan would not cost us ONE of) every second of every minute of every hour…….for 38,050 years. One dime every second….plus interest.
And it will only get worse……
Make that window sticker. Close all emails with that sentiment. Create a movement.
If you wait for our children to fix it, it will be too late…….
Patrick, do you live on this website? I happened back here because I left the tab open and was going to do a web search and there you are, still at it. You are obviously getting notifed of any new postings so you can pounce on them. I find your tenacity quite comical. If you are really so well infomed and dedicated to getting the USA straigtened out, may I respectfully suggest you spend your time educating the Congress and President instead of arguing with a handful of people on this website. Your efforts here are really quite pointless. Now, off to my search. Bye.
I guess Don finds my writing to be “ramblings tedious and arrogant” because unlike the PROPAGANDISTS & DISINFORMERS, I get straight to the POINT & provide ample EVIDENCE to BACK UP what I say.
It’s a great way to CUT through BS.
Nor do I rely on RHETORIC, SUBTLTY, INNUENDO & AD HOMINEM arguments which THEY do.
Patrick in California
“The problem with people learning from history is that so few actually do.”–Unknown.
Here it is, January 5th, and I can’t believe I got caught up reading this discussion on Obama’s birth. I wanted to quit, but read the whole darn thing. I found several people’s comments to be an interesting read, Dean Larson and Gary to mention two of them. As for Patrick, I find his ramblings tedious and arrogant. If I were a debate teacher and had to endure him for a whole semester I would resign. That is not a personal attack, it is simply my view on his attitude and how he has approached the subject.. Regardless of whether any of his “proof” is, in fact, proof, his presentation skills(?) are severly lacking. As for the discussion, and as was pointed out in several of the responses, Americans have the right to know the truth. The truth has been obscured by Pres. Obama, which is the whole reason for the distrust and controversy about his citizenship. I’m not a historian, but I don’t know of any other President whose birth and background became a controversy. Pres. Obama’s past is certainly filled with mystery. This, in itself, is troubling. It matters not whether he ends up being a great President or not. The very root of our Constitution is at stake. It should be the concern of every American that the person who presides over our country is lawful to do so. If it doesn’t matter, let’s just open up the next election to anyone in the world who thinks they have the intelligence to clean up the mess our country is in. Since there are so many people throughout the world who think America is on the wrong track, I’m sure we would be inundated with applications. I refrain from commenting further on American’s current political and economic situation. That is for another debate. But as for this discussion concerning citizenship, President Obama failed to put this very important question to rest, which he should easily be able to do if he is, in fact, a citizen. The fact that he has danced around this issue is extreamly troubling to me, and should be for all Americans. For anyone to accept Factcheck, Snopes, recordings, newspaper clippings and other miscellaneous ‘proof’ as fact is absolutely obsurd. None of it would hold up in a court of law. Also, it is not the responsibility of the American people to have to prove whether Pres. Obama is a citizen or not. That is a requirement of anyone who runs for office. Of course, when we have 535 crooks running our country, who is going to press the issue? VOTE THEM ALL OUT and keep doing so until they pass term limits.
Sorry, let me try and unjumble my last comment.
the only true, concrete evidence as to obamas citizenship, would only require the approval by obama, to be released.
this would be the easiest, and cheapest way to remove all doubts. any question of his character, honesty, integrity, and qualifications, constitutional qualifications that is, would be put to rest.
Unfortunately, obama chooses to spend big money to block the only concrete evidence available. and the question open to debate.
I ask anyone of rational thought, if you had nothing to hide, which path would you take?
obamas unwillingness to take the most transparent, completely conclusive path, should raise more than enough questions to warrant anyone sworne to protect our constitution,to require the questions answered.
oh, and for the obama faithfull, I already know. this is the fault of the bush administration, I know.
WHAT???????????????
unfortunately, I tend to believe in what i see. as much as obama has proven hisself to be a fine upstanding honest weasle with that rare ability to make people believe he didn’t have sex with that woman. even though all evidence says otherwise. i’ve given up hope that the ignorance epidemic would go away. unfortunately the small satisfaction that comes with the knowledge that i will get to say i told you so is far outweighed by the fear of the damage that has to occur before the blind will see. it’s unfortunate that those of us who have seen this from the offset will suffer too. all because it’s too much effort, and not important enough for some people to put forth a minimal effort “which is all that is needed” to discover the truth. the truth is, knowing that only he can make available, the documents which provide proof positive obamas legal status. he chooses to invest excessive amounts of money into making sure no one ever sees these documents. oh that’s right, the politicians in hawaii have seen the documents and have agreed they’re authentic. and obama didn’t know rev right was that way. since the possability of payoffs from a corrupt politician who has proven that any time sound comes from his mouth 50 to 60% of the time he’s not being truthfull. the rest of the time it’s just b.s. to the corrupt politicians that obama surrounds himself with. is as believable as the idea that the best way to fix the economy is by spending all we’ve got making more and spending it to. for you obamamaniacs of the obamanation, that was sarcasm. long, short. if there’s nothing to hide releasing these documents for all to see, would prove it. just as paying great sums of money to hide this absolute evidence is proof of our point. he was able to say that the definition of tax was incorrect in the dictionary. i wonder if he knows the definition of transparancy.
my guess is that patrick in california is the same numbnuts who writes his drivel in the north county times………
Snopes is a very liberal site and you cannot depend on them for an independant view.
Thank you, ROMY and JERRY, for your recognition… and that of Patrick for what he has exposed himself as being (which is opposal to what he delusionally THINKS he is, isn’t it?)!
(were the adjective “obnoxious” added, would he not fit exactly the infantile liberalist mold as suggested in my previous epistle?!?)
(What’s that?)
(That, too, would be appropriate…but I don’t believe we are allowed to use that term in this blog.)
(What?)
(Well, yes, we could consider dropping the first 2 words and just use “hole” but out of context, that wouldn’t make much sense, would it?)
As for “Factcheck”, have him follow his own link (hint: COLB)(he was expecting us to accept Obama’s left-wing-in-extremis ex-employer’s ‘opinion!)(oopsie!).
Upon contemplation, it occurred to me that ridding myself of him was a “strategic withdrawal” only in the sense that an enema could be considered a “strategic withdrawal”.
An enlightened withdrawal inasmuch as “It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.” Wm.McAdoo
And were one asked for an assessment of Patrick, “ignorant” would be a magnanimity of generous proportions.
That said, I do bid to you two, adieu!
Dean
Patrick, I think you are full of BS. Another leftist, liberal, kiss ***, Democrat. I know you claim that you are not a Dem, but the handwriting is on every post you have made. Live with it. Dean has made so much more sense than you. He had enough class to withdraw. Maybe you should show somw class and grow up. I forgot, Dems have no class.
So Dean showed some sense & made a “strategic withdrawl”. And since he tried yet another SMEAR campain before he RETREATED, I suggest that people look at the SOURCES we each used.
I do NOT see “Factcheck” in there. Was Dean merely “mistaken” or was LYING?
And he “wonders” WHY I say he is FULL OF BS. LOLROTF!!!
Patrick in California
America and maybe even the rest of the world need people like Dean Larson who approach life in a more sensible manner. I agree that dealing with the Patricks of the world gets you nowhere, just more citations from people that are no longer around. I pray to God that he does’nt have any political ambition to follow his favorite Hawaiian born president and continue the destruction of our country. Dean Larson I salute you, Sir. Have a happy and prosperous New Year!
Well, folks! This is it for me! Adios!
This has seemingly turned into a ‘Dean vs Patrick’ blog. And I refuse any further discourse with someone who, quite obviously, is not seeking truth but only the blind furtherance of his liberal agenda.
You lied to us, Parick (or you are lying to yourself) when you claimed to be neither a liberal nor an Obama supporter. To support your inane assertions, you cite authorities such as
Factcheck (Annenberg/liberal based/Obama was on their board, Patrick!),
Salon (liberal agenda, according to Wikipedia)and
‘Fight the Smears’ (organized by Obama and funded by the DemNatlCom!). Plus some others. Were it not for this, you could still have been spotted as a liberal from a long ways off: only facts that support your view are facts, everything else is “BS!”. Name calling. Inability to separate heresy from facts (unless the heresay supports your view)(otherwise it’s “BS!”). Tangental diversions to avoid issues. Etc.
I entered this arena with the non-confrontational comment that it would be nice to get to the TRUTH.
That there were so many fabrications and lies floating around from both sides (I cited some examples all annotated with “supposed”), that we needed an a-political authority to delve into the matter and, once and for all, give We the People the TRUTH. Shovel out the barn, so to speak.
Patrick didn’t want the TRUTH if it varied from his “Obama was born in Hawaii” agenda using more misleading statements than I had referred to in my opening commentary! So there he was with HIS pitchfork attempting to shovel it back into the barn!
For the last time, I will respond to Patrick’s non-sensical blather:
He urges me to listen to a recording supposedly by Obama’s grandmother and a translater. Why? Would this in anyway constitute ‘proof’? No. Would it deflate the supposed rumor that Obama’s grandmother attended his birth in Kenya? Yes…IF this recording could be proven to be authentic. (I had brought this up as just one more “supposedly” ,and it was labelled as such,that obscured the truth but apparently to Patrick anti-Obama “supposedly”s are “BS!” whereas liberal”supposedly”s gospel according to Patrick). The recording is merely more unverifiable heresay. As would anything the grandmother had to say. (in other words, Patrick, if she said he wasn’t born in Kenya after all, would that be sufficient proof for him to be a ‘naturalized’ citizen and President of the US? No. No moreso than would a grammar school record filled in by a parent that he had Indonesian citizenship. It’s heresay since there was no verifiable record to back it up.(there’s even a supposed Mombasa hospital birth certificate floating around out there!)(yeah…just more crap to muddy up things but it IS fun to watch the Dem’s wringing their hands!)(and the Patricks).
He then goes on to declare me “full of BS” regarding the Cert of Live Birth. His proof? An article that takes its information from Factcheck; a group financed by Annenberg, that aforementioned liberal foundation on whose board Obama once sat! (I’m sure Patrick sees nothing wrong with this).
In truth, especially due to the separation of the state into islands habitated by the native population, many Hawaiian births are and were home-births. A “Certificate of Live Birth” could be obtained up to one year after the birth to provide a record of that child’s existence. As such, it merely records heresay. Does it constitute proof? Absolutely not! (until the Democratic Hawaiian government mysteriously reversed their decades-old stance in June of 2008/just about the time the ‘birthers’ were raising a stink). It was, understanably, the best Hawaii could come up with during those times.
The newspaper notice of BHO’s birth? Again, supportive but not proof (try taking a newspaper clipping into a driver’s license bureau, Patrick!). And it was printed 9 days after BHO’s birth so it no more supports a Hawaiian birth than a Kenyan one!
Patrick then most authoritatively states as fact that the dismissals of numerous of the court cases implies a “FATAL FLAW” in the case! Is this statement supported by anything, Patrick, or is this merely more liberal “BS”, to use your favorite term? (what? there’s no such thing as liberal BS? only righ-wing BS? I’ll try to remember that…)
In truth, Patrick’s “BS” is at odds with the facts. Some cases were dismissed due to lack of “locus standi” (the plaintiff could not show personal harm from the violation! In this circumstance, the ruling is as stupid as it is subversive.) and some “the relevant courts have either denied applications or declined to render a judgement due to lack of jurisdiction.” (this according to Wikipedia). Did a court or judge mention a FATAL FLAW! of any kind? Nope. Only Patrick…. (then who should we believe??? who should we believe???)
Further, Patrick exclaims that “PARENTAGE has never been a requirement for those born on US soil”. This ‘parentage’ thing has never really been an issue, Patrick; the “soil” is in question!
He then asks us to believe some “experts” who examine an on-line COLB over the CIA expert to which I linked (granted, “supposed” but if you read his extensive study, few would question his expertise) who supposedly examined the ACTUAL document. And, supposedly, found it fraudulent. Which Patrick declared “BS!”. But his unnamed experts from the liberal source, we are to be assured, are not BS.
Possibly a moot point. Remember: a COLB is not proof (or wasn’t at the time of His birth). So if it’s real, it makes no difference in the question: was He born in Hawaii?. On the other hand, forgery would only indicate falsification which would point fingers in which direction?
(uh-oh, Patrick!).
Onward….
Now Patrick brings up a most interesting fact: Selective Service registration was not required in 1979. I did not know this (not that I don’t trust Patrick, but I verified on a SS site). So that card bandied about on the net MUST be a forgery! (one mystery solved!) Big question is: BY WHOM? (this possibly doesn’t look good for your side either, Patrick…)
I’ve wasted enough time here hoping for more stimulating banter than that from a liberal-devotee; I should have expected nothing more but I foolishly did….mea culpa.
PS: Uh-oh! Something just occurred to me….Patrick: If you’re only, like, 8 years old?… then I apologize. (with these liberals, you really can’t tell…)
Actually I’ve ALREADY done most of the RESEARCH & posted it on Yahoo Groups.
You & certain others keep REHASHING & RETREADING BS that has long since been DISPROVEN.
And if READ what I said above, I certainly did NOT blame the Republicans for all of this nation’s ills.
A lot people realize on an INSTINCTIVE level that something is WRONG in America.
But they have NO idea of WHAT the PROBLEM is or it’s CAUSE, so they have NO idea of WHAT to FIX to SOLVE the PROBLEM.
They just KNOW that “something” must be done.
So many people treat the SYMPTOMS & apply “band-aid therapy”.
They BLINDLY sign every petition for “change” & the vote for every initiative & candidate that promises “change”, HOPING for the better.
And the CYCLE continues & NOTHING changes.
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” — Albert Einstein
WHY is that???
Could that be because the REAL PROBLEM lies not with the government, but with the people?
“…There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. … Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing.”–Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837
Patrick in California
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”–James Madison
Patrick must really have plenty of time in his hands to be doing all this research and writing about each issues we are trying to discuss. He’s saying that he is neither a Democrat or a Republican and that the Republican brought us 9-11, the war on terror and all the bad things that are happening in our country. I wonder, when’s the last time you send a letter to those congressman and senators critizing them about the things they are not doing for our country. And another thing, I don’t know how old you are Patrick, but what have you done for your country lately? Don’t tell me that you pay your taxes because I do too and so does millions of americans.
I came to this country when I was fifteen years old and I spend most of my adult life serving in the military (20 years), and I am not ashamed to tell the world about it. I will do it again if it means freedom for my grandchildren and all americans. That includes you Patrick.
IF Dean “questions” the transcript then he should LISTEN to audio since I included a link to the UNCUT version and/or download Phil Berg’s pleadings which contain the transcript.
IF people actually READ the laws I posted before they would KNOW that Dean is full of BS about Hawaii Certifications of Live Birth since they have been consider PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE since 1949. The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands preferred the Certificate for genealogical reasons because you need to have 50 percent native Hawaii blood to qualify for their programs.
And his ALLEGED “expose” brings up laws that did NOT exist when Obama was born, programs that he would NOT of qualified for as a newborn & IGNORES many FACTS such as the HOSPITAL supplied birth announcements, the published accounts of people who knew his parents & the doctor who delivered him & the FACT that Hawaiian law NEVER allowed for a FOREIGN born baby to obtain a Certification of Live Birth stating that they were born in Hawaii.
A case that is DISMISSED because it had NO LEGAL FOUNDATION is NOT a mere “technicality”. It is a FATAL DEFECT. PARENTAGE has never been a requirement for one born on U.S. soil to be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
And even WND disputed those ALLEGED “forgery” claims.
A separate WND investigation into Obama’s certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren’t originally there.
(Editor’s note: WND’s investigation into the certification of live birth did not include inspecting the actual document, but only asking experts to evaluate the online image. Those experts, therefore, could not “prove” the document’s authenticity. The experts told WND merely that many of the forgery claims made against the image were inconclusive or falsified, leaving them no evidence that would cast doubt on the image’s authenticity.)
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214
And if people actually did some RESEARCH & VERIFIED things they would REALIZE that there would have been NO REASON for Obama to have registered for Selective Service in 1979.
When was registration reinstated?
President Jimmy Carter reinstated the Selective Service registration requirement in the summer of 1980.
http://www.sss.gov/QA.HTM#quest8
And IF people READ those resolutions they will see that they ACTUALLY were to COMMEMORATE the anniversery of the admission of Hawaii to the UNION & they mere recognized that Obama was born there.
Patrick in California
“It ain’t what ya don’t know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin’ on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain’t so.” — Uncle Remus
Typical.
People who can NOT or will NOT back up their BS resort to “trying” SMEARS.
And “trying” to play the “blame game”.
We are STILL suffering the effects of the POLICIES of the Bush Administration.
And I’m NOT a “liberal” or a “democrat” & I never supported Clinton, Gore or Obama.
Patrick in California
“It isn’t the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop.”-Unknown
Patrick keep wanting for us to come up with evidence, the evidence is sitting right there in the White House. And as for Patrick saying that all that we need to know about Obama is proven and authentic, well, Mr. Patrick what guarantee do you have that everything that he has shown so far are real. People like our friend Patrick here is good example of a classic liberal. I would make a bet that he did’nt think Clinton did not do anything wrong either when he lied to the american people about his affair with Monica Lewinsky. Even after is been proven that he did had an affair, all his supporter are still not convince that it’s not an impeachable offense. I bet that if Clinton had an affair with Patrick’s daughter or maybe even his wife, he would still say it’s okay, he’s a popular president, the economy is good and it’s only sex. That would be Patrick’s attitude. Again, to Patrick, my evidence is sitting right there in the White House ruining our beloved country.
You’ve done a lot of work there, Patrick!
The transcript of the Obama grandmother’s statement I find interesting; something I will have to try to pursue even though I, personally, do not grant much importance to it (heresay is not proof merely supportive or not)and I would tend to question it based on the source you use (Salon, according to Wikipedia: “American liberal politics is its major focus”).
As for, as Patrick asserts, the “SUPPOSED “anonymous expert” that DEPENDS on his SUPPOSED “expertise””…I stand by my assertion and all the facts and footnotes therein that it presents what is the MOST objective and comprehensive expose I have yet seen on the question at hand: undisputable proof.
What has been presented to We the People thus far (the Cert of Live Birth)HAS not been and WAS not considered ‘proof’ of any kind for any purpose until, mysteriously, June of 2009 when the State of Hawaii reversed a recent previous confirmation of such and declared it, henceforth, ‘proof’.
And the court case referenced by Patrick was dismissed on a technicality, one might say. The court rejected some of the wayward content of the argument and thus, dismissed the case. The Obama/McCain question had no relevance to the dismissal.
And your statement, Patrick, that there is “no credible evidence that he was not born in Hawaii!” is not only conjecture but simply inane: we, in this blog, ask “Prove that he WAS born in Hawaii!” and your reply is “Prove he wasn’t!”?? (I don’t believe your debating referee would give you high marks for that one).
To restate the question: we all know that this topic is obscured by smoke and mirrors from the left and the right (fabrications/lies).
All we know for certain is that, according to the State of Hawaii, we know that what we have been shown as proof, officially (at the time of His birth)and by its very nature, is NOT proof.
(and even if the form used were proof, there is ‘supposed’ evidence from a known authority that it was tampered http://www.bogusbirthcertificate.blogspot.com . As was, perhaps, his Selective Service card: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/004431print.html Truth? More fiction? How are We the People to know without unbiased, authoritative introspection?
Frankly, I don’t care one way or the other..whether He stays or goes (I don’t like Him but not as much as I didn’t like his predecessor).
This, for most of us, Patrick, is not a subjective matter, as it obviously is for you, as much as an objective concern:
We all seek irrefutable evidence from someone, somewhere! The TRUTH!
And it bothers the hell out of me that none of our pseudo-representatives are concerned in the least (other than to pass a resolution (S225/HR593) stating that ‘He was born in Hawaii’ which raises even more questions/suspicions: what did THEY use for proof? Or were they overriding the Constitution via Congressional edict in an attempt to thwart further investigation?).
“The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.
We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark af infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle or be CHEATED OUT OF THEM BY THE ARTIFICES OF FALSE AND DESIGNING MEN.” Samuel Adams
I would be willing to wager that Sam would want to know the truth…
Not at all. However I have been writing about issues involving the law, government regulation, law enforcement, licensing, the criminal justice system, gun control, the banking & monetary system, Social Security, the income tax, 9-11 & the “war on terror”, modern medicine & the medical establishment, public education & the mainstream media for many years.
May can be found on Yahoo Groups such as TeaParty, No Income Tax, No Drivers Licence, Citizens of the USA & Law Discuss.
And from WHAT I have seen & DOCUMENTED over the years, many of people’s “beliefs” on those subjects are BASED on BS & “half truths”.
And I do NOT base my opinions on HEARSAY, BASELESS SPECULATION, RUMOR or INNUENDO as many here appear to be doing.
I find it very SAD & AMUSING that Jerry wants to “blame” the Democrats when the Republican gave us 9-11 & the SO-CALLED “War on Terror” which has COST over FIVE THOUSAND American soldier’s LIVES & around ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND LIVES of those in the countries that it is being fought in.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
And then there is the MONETARY COST of the SO-CALLED “War on Terror”.
http://costofwar.com/
If people are HONEST with themselves, they have to acknowledge that BOTH parties are responsible for the SOCIALISM that has INFECTED America of the past ONE HUNDRED years.
And the simple FACT is that many in BOTH parties are COLLECTIVISTS.
THINK about it.
Regardless of WHAT they call themselves – REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, LEFT, RIGHT, LIBERAL, CONSERVATIVE, and so on – DON’T most of those in government end up SPENDING more MONEY, INCREASING the size & scope of government, try to LEGISLATE in areas they have NO BUSINESS being in & INFRINGING on our LIBERTIES?
Yet instead LEARNING about the real issues & strategies to deal them, most people sit around WHINING and/or “chasing their tails” over BS.
“…There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. … Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing.”–Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837
Patrick in California
“We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, for my part, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst & to provide for it.”– Patrick Henry
Patrick must be unemployed, to have so much time to write all of this crap. You only believe what you want to believe. I think that is a quote by Patrick. I still think all of this is bogus. The Dems will stop at nothing. This country is going to Hell with illegalities in the administration and Congress. Patrick you should take up the violations of the U.S. Constitution that are occuring every day in Washington. If you are as smart as you think you are.
Dean’s SO-CALLED “comprehensive explanation of the question” is CRAP.
It was made by a SUPPOSED “anonymous expert” that DEPENDS on his SUPPOSED “expertise” to give it any CREDIBILITY. An ALLEGED “expert” WHO “chooses” to remain ANONYMOUS so people had NO way to check his ALLEGED “credentials”.
“Editors Note: In December ‘08 a retired CIA officer commissioned an investigator to look into the Barack Obama birth certificate and eligibility issue. On July 21, 2009 westernjournalism.com obtained a copy of the investigator’s report. Here is an unedited version of the report.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2303258/posts
It appears to me that the position stated has NO BASIS in FACT or LAW, especially given the FACT that NO American is even REQUIRED to have any “birth certificate” & given the FACT that NO ONE has found ANY CREDIBLE evidence that he was not born in Hawaii in almost TWO YEARS.
§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm
§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0019.HTM
The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.
The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.
…
Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department “does not have a short-form or long-form certificate.”
“The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,” she said.
Okubo also emphasized the certification form “contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate.”
She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state’s current certification of live birth “as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.”
http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html
Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.
The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.
http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
And Dean “conviently” states “To my knowledge, none have been heard or decided” the simple FACT is that ALL of the “birther” lawsuits have been DISMISSED by the courts because they are based on BS.
“Leading up to the 2008 Presidential Election and in the ensuing months after, a number of lawsuits were filed nationwide challenging both President Barack Obama and Senator John McCain‟s10 status as “natural born Citizens” under Article II of the U.S. Constitution. See, e.g., Berg v. Obama, 574 F. Supp. 2d 509 (E.D. Pa. 2008); Hollander v. McCain, 566 F. Supp. 2d 63 (D.N.H. 2008); Cohen v. Obama, No. 08-2150, 2008 WL 5191864 (D.D.C. Dec. 11, 2008), aff‟d by 2009 WL 2870668 (D.C. Cir. Sept. 8, 2009); Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz, 958 A.2d 709 (Conn. 2008). As to President Obama‟s status, the most common argument has been waged by members of the so-called “birther” movement who suggest that the President was not born in the United States; they support their argument by pointing to “the President‟s alleged refusal to disclose publicly an “official birth certificate‟ that is satisfactory to [the birthers].” Rhodes v. MacDonald, No. 4:09-CV-106, 2009 WL 2997605, at *1 (M.D. Ga. Sept. 16, 2009), reconsideration denied by 2009 WL 3111834 (M.D. Ga. Sept. 18, 2009).
The Plaintiffs in the instant case make a different legal argument based strictly on constitutional interpretation. Specifically, the crux of the Plaintiffs‟ argument is that “[c]ontrary to the thinking of most People on the subject, there‟s a very clear distinction between a „citizen of the United States‟ and a natural born Citizen,‟ and the difference involves having [two] parents of U.S. citizenship, owing no foreign allegiance.” Appellants‟ Brief at 23. With regard to President Barack Obama, the Plaintiffs posit that because his father was a citizen of the United Kingdom, President Obama is constitutionally ineligible to assume the Office of the President.
…
Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Just as a person “born within the British dominions [was] a natural-born British subject” at the time of the framing of the U.S. Constitution, so too were those “born in the allegiance of the United States natural-born citizens.”15
The Plaintiffs do not mention the above United States Supreme Court authority in their complaint or brief; they primarily rely instead on an eighteenth century treatise and quotations of Members of Congress made during the nineteenth century. To the extent that these authorities conflict with the United States Supreme Court’s interpretation of what it means to be a natural born citizen, we believe that the Plaintiffs’ arguments fall under the category of “conclusory, non-factual assertions or legal conclusions” that we need not accept as true when reviewing the grant of a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim. Irish, 864 N.E.2d at 1120. Thus, we cannot say that the trial court erred when it dismissed the Plaintiffs case. 16 See generally McCalment v. Eli Lilly & Co., 860 N.E.2d 884 (Ind. Ct. App. 2007) (holding that the plaintiffs‟ arguments had been sufficiently addressed by Indiana Supreme Court precedent and therefore the trial court did not err when it granted the defendant’s motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted); see also, e.g., Diaz-Salazar v. I.N.S., 700 F.2d 1156, 1160 (7th Cir. 1983) (noting in its recitation of the facts that despite the fact father was not a citizen of the United States, he had children who were “natural-born citizens of the United States”), cert. denied 462 U.S. 1132, 103 S. Ct. 3112 (1983).
For the foregoing reasons, we affirm the trial court’s grant of the Governor’s motion to dismiss.
STEVE ANKENY AND BILL KRUSE V. GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF INDIANA, No. 49A02-0904-CV-353, IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF INDIANA, November 12, 2009
Click to access 11120903.ebb.pdf
But those of us who have done some REAL RESEARCH already KNOW these things & are NOT relying on CRAP article that written in July.
Patrick in California
“It isn’t the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop.”-Unknown
Unlike Dean, I have done some REAL RESEARCH so I actually KNOW what I am talking about & can DOCUMENT it.
The conversation with his “grandmother” in Kenya was DELIBERATELY EDITED to avoid her REPEATEDLY saying that he was BORN IN HAWAII.
“What Liddy was referring to is actually an affidavit filed by a street preacher named Ron McRae, who conducted an interview with Sarah Obama, the second wife of President Obama’s grandfather, through a translator. (Sarah Obama is not the president’s biological grandmother, but he calls her “Granny Sarah.”)
In that interview, Sarah Obama does in fact say at one point that she was there for her grandson’s birth. But that was a mistake, a confusion in translation. As soon as a jubilant McRae began to press her for further details about her grandson being born in Kenya, the family realized the mistake and corrected him. And corrected him. And corrected him. (The audio is available for download here.) [http://s16v.com/americasright/8167169.wma]
No matter, though, because people who believe in a conspiracy theory simply hear what they want to hear. So some Birther sites have posted transcripts and YouTube clips that end abruptly with the mistranslation and don’t include the corrections. McRae, for his part, included the full translation in his affidavit — he thinks it’s all just part of the conspiracy. “Some few younger relatives, including [translator Vitalis Akech Ogombe],” McRae wrote in his court filing, “have obviously been versed to counter such facts with the common purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii.”
Here’s the conversation:
MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?
OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.
MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?
OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.
MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.
OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.
MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.”
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy/
Patrick in California
“It isn’t the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop.”-Unknown
Oh, Patrick!
You’ve done it again!
That Abraham Lincoln quotation! PERFECT!
Again, hoisted on your own petard!
(got any more quotations for us?)
You KNOW the supposed testimony of his grandmother (and also his half-sister and half-brother, supposedly) that he was born in Kenya is wrong because…????? Why?
Notice, I referred to the testimony as ‘supposed’ because, up until now, it hasn’t been objectively confirmed one way or the other.
But YOU seem to know that it’s NOT true! Perhaps YOU could put an end to all this conjecture! Forget the Supreme Court….to hell with a Congressional investigation! PATRICK has the proof! Tell us, Patrick, tell the whole nation why this could not be true!
We’re waiting……
To “Patrick”:
The EVIDENCE that a “Certificate of Live Birth” is no proof is easily found for anyone seeking to be informed (see link in my previous commentary, for one source). It’s not up for debate; it’s a fact.
THIS is the basis for all the questions and doubts surrounding this issue.
I have heard it said that you can identify a ‘leftist’ in that they believe what they believe because it’s what they WANT to believe. A totally subjective appraisal. And that their vision will not be clouded by facts: the truth is only true if it agrees with your belief. In other words…
“It ain’t what ya don’t know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin’ on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain’t so.” (I find it ironic that YOU provided this apt quotation!)
If you are questioning the very basis for the argument debated herein, then you, quite obviously, have not, and by the sounds of your commentary, WILL not, conduct any research into the indisputable objective facts of this matter. Because “you can’t HANDLE the truth!!” because it is at odds with what you WANT to believe.
To summarize the argument:
OBJECTIVELY: –what has been presented, we know, is not PROOF.
–there is AVOIDANCE; a lack of transparency.
SUBJECTIVELY: –numerous rumors and hoaxes perpetrated by both sides; some which have to be true, since every possiblity seems to have been covered. Which are true?
“We the People” do not have the authority to delve into records to find THE TRUTH. That’s all we want…we deserve nothing less. But ‘less’ is probably what we’ll have to settle for….. thus the anger evident in blogs such as these.
We demand the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Furthermore, the Constitution…the whole Constitution…and nothing but the Constitution.
On both counts, our government is thumbing its nose at us.
And here comes Romy to help SPREAD the BS.
Please POST this SUPPOSED “Kenyan birth certificate” & SUPPOSED “admissions” from his “grandmother”.
Patrick in California
“BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND BE THOUGHT A FOOL than to speak and remove all doubt.”–Abraham Lincoln
Once again, a lot of BS “accusations” WITHOUT any EVIDENCE to PROVE them.
People SHOULD know by now that Obama put an online image of his Certification of Live Birth the middle of LAST YEAR.
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html
And WHAT does his college records have ANYTHING to do with his status as a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, which is a matter of LAW & as Gary correctly noted is one’s BIRTHRIGHT?
WHAT is Gary’s SUPPOSED “evidence” about these 20 SUPPOSED “Czars”?
And WHAT is his ALLEGED “evidence” that they can “circumvent Congressional oversight”?
WHAT is his SUPPOSED “evidence” that Obama “fashioned the Health-care plan” which is a product of the COMMITTEE ON ENERGY & COMMERCE.
Click to access aahca.pdf
And WHERE is the ALLEGED “evidence” of all of his other ACCUSATIONS?
And isn’t it funny that Gary “claims” that “there is nothing in the Constitution about separation of church and state” & that “the state cannot tell us how to worship” DESPITE the FACT that Congress is PROHIBITED from making any “law respecting an establishment of religion” & “the free exercise” of RELIGION, which IS a SEPERATION of church & state?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
But Gary KNOWS that he can NOT BACK UP his BS which is WHY he say that “And don’t ask me for evidence. It is all on public record.”
He is just COUNTING on people to BUY IN to his BS & NOT do any RESEARCH to VERIFY the FACTS.
Patrick in California
“It isn’t the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop.”-Unknown
Jerry said “A Certification of Live Birth is not a Birth Certificate.”
And his EVIDENCE of this is WHAT?
Patrick in California
“It ain’t what ya don’t know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin’ on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain’t so.” — Uncle Remus
It’s really very simple, if he wants these people to stop scrutinizing his eligibility to be president of the United States, provide the public authentic documentation. I saw a copy of his supposedly Kenyan birth certificate on the internet, I don’t know how real it is and it shows a footprint of a newborn baby. Heck, if it is real, have some expert check the footprint on the birth certificate and compare to Obama’s footprint. If it does’nt match, then he has nothing to worry a
about. And why would his Kenyan grandmother and also some relatives say that he was born in Kenya. They know that if it’s the case he will be disqualified to run for president of the US. If he really has nothing to hide and wants to run a transparent administration, he should quit stonewalling and give these people what they want. Maybe there’s another way for him to prove that he was born in the US. He can provide us a authentic copy of his birth certificate from the 57th state.
I’m not a birther. I don’t know enough about the issue and it doesn’t matter what I think anymore. But I hope the birthers are right. Their evidence seems to be that our President is hiding something which could be solved very simply. I can produce a copy of my birth certificate from 1946 and I don’t care who sees my college records. I dropped out of college after two years to join the Army and went to Vietnam. I’m not afraid to let people know that. He claims an open administration, the most open ever. It is reasonable for people to question his birthright.
What I do know is that Obama is either a fool or a liar. He promised us the most transparent administration ever. Nothing about this administration has been transparent. He promised to govern from the middle and then appointed over twenty Czars who can circumvent Congressional oversight. He promised to try to get a bi-partisan consensus and then fashioned the Health-care plan behind closed doors. He promised to fix the gays in the military policy. He is the Commander-in-Chief of the entire U. S. military. What’s holding him back? He promised to immediately close Guantanamo. Today I read in the paper they will be holding military tribunals for some of the terrorist there in 2010. He claimed he was a Christian, then went to the mid-east and said we were “not a Christian nation” and “might even be called a Muslim one”. By the way, there is nothing in the Constitution about separation of church and state. Read it. It says the state shall establish no religion – as in the state cannot tell us how to worship. He said he had campaigned in all but two of our fifty-seven states. The man now runs the country that didn’t even know how many states they’re are. Our President says whatever he thinks to most people want to hear. He bows before foreign kings and talks about our arrogance on a continent where hundreds of thousands of young Americans lie in graves from saving Europe. Europe thinks we’re an immature country. That isn’t arrogant of them? Is having a dictator or king better because it’s older?
I’m not a birther, I’m not a Conservative, I’m not a Republican. I’m a moderate in the middle where this President said he would govern from. So, Obama supporters, which is it? Is he a fool or a liar? And don’t ask me for evidence. It is all on public record. I’ll produce documents when Obama does. I think he suckered most of the people that voted for him and continues to do so.
Gary
A Certification of Live Birth is not a Birth Certificate.
So where is Romy’s SO-CALLED “evidence” of this ALLEGED “travel ban” to Pakistan in 1981?
It’s FUNNY how all of this people with all of these SUPPOSED “questions” FALL SILENT when challenged to provide the EVIDENCE that BACKS UP what they “claim”.
And how they “mysteriously” FAIL to mention that an image of his Certification of Live Birth has been online since the middle of LAST YEAR.
It almost appears as if they are just TRYING stir up LONG DISPROVEN myths & rumors.
Patrick in California
“It ain’t what ya don’t know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin’ on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain’t so.” — Uncle Remus
There must be someone still alive who assisted the doctor who delivered Obama who can also attest that he was born at that hospital in 1961. The director who with his sworn statement states that he actually saw the vital records of his birth, then why is his birth certificate not being shown to the public and put this whole thing to rest. Also, with his own admission, that he indeed travelled to Pakistan in 1981, at which time, all US citizen are restricted from travelling to that country. If indeed, he travelled to Pakistan in 1981, what passport did he used? Certainly not a US passport? Mr. Obama for once need to come clean in regards to this issue.
Dean & Cazdenza have made a lot of “claims”.
We are talking about LAW & in LAW the ASSERTING PARTY bears the BURDEN of PROOF.
So WHERE is their EVIDENCE of what they “believe”?
That way we can have a meaningful discussion.
Patrick in California
TO Patrick- YOU TRY TO CLAIM A STUDIOUS APPROACH, A MENTION THE CHANGING OF THE RULES, HOWEVER THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO VETTED HIM THOUGHT THE RULES IN 1961 WERE THE SAME AS NOW. THEY WERE NOT. NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE? HIS GRANDMOTHER, BROTHER AND SISTER ALL ATTEST TO HIS BEING BORN IN KENYA…HIS RECORDS AT OCCIDENTAL SHOW HE WAS A FOREIGN STUDENT SCHOLARSHIP STUDENT, AND HE DID TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN IN 1981, WHICH HE COULD NOT WITH A US PASSPORT…WHY SPEND THE MONEY HE HAS SPENT TO FIGHT PRODUCTION OF HIS ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND RECORDS FROM HIS SCHOOLS…MAKES NO SENSE IF THERE IS NOT SOMETHING THERE. HE COULD STOP THIS OVER A YEAR AND A HALF AGO BY PRODUCING THE DOCUMENTS REQUESTED, RATHER THAN FIGHTING IT. THINK, PLEASE.
The lack of transparency of this issue, to me, reveals a verdict. But that presumption aside….
Researching, I came upon what I feel is the most comprehensive explanation of the question(s): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2303258/posts
It is a lengthy discourse explaining why what has been presented as “proof” is not valid: the Hawaiian Certificate of Birth may be obtained up to one year after birth without credentials.(there are 4 types)
Seemingly, the main question regarding the birthplace deals with “supposedly”s:
— supposedly, his mother was denied flight ticket from Kenya due to imminent birth.
–supposedly there is record of his birth in Kenya.
–supposedly his grandmother, his half-brother and his half-sister all attest to being at his birth. In Kenya.
–supposedly there is no bona fide record of his birth in Hawaii (Queens Hospital supposedly confirmed but later retracted).
–there is a facsimile of a newspaper notice of his birth but it is out of context (could be any newspaper). Revealingly, it was from, purportedly, the 13th: 9 days after his supposed birth. This, to me, would support the Kenyan birth more than the Honolulu birth (why delayed 9 days?).
–supposedly, there is a grammar school record showing his nationality as being Indonesian (Soetoro) but this is no more proof than the Hawaiian Cert of Birth: verbal (step-father may have ‘fibbed’ since you had to be a citizen to attend school).
It was fully expected that the Supreme Court would deny the case as they felt it an investigative matter not a matter of Constitutional interpretation. Thus, more appropriate for an investigative body. With great disappointment, I understand.
Attorneys investigating this have filed numerous cases before numerous courts to force legal, credible verdicts. To my knowledge, none have been heard or decided.
Anybody out there trust our Congress to get to the bottom of all this?
Me either…they, for some years, have had their own agenda dissimilar to that of We the People, seemingly. (when was the last time you actually saw them do something FOR us as opposed to TO us?)(When?)(I’m waiting….)
It is lunacy that this matter cannot, will not, be resolved. It is a simple matter of finding the certified TRUTH. And this commodity is hard to come by within the confines of the DC Beltway….
VOTE THEM ALL OUT EVERYTIME (if they’ll let us)
Both factcheck.org and snopes.com are left-leaning. Whenever there is a question of “authenticity” or “context” they ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to liberals. In their “research” liberals are allowed to spin their comments and “facts” whereas it has to be an out and out lie about what a conservative may have said before factcheck or snopes will come to the aid of anyone right of center. It’s just like the national socialist media, a definite leftward tilt – whether conscious or unconscious it’s still true. And you can tell a real liberal liar when they can say with a straight face the legacy media is not biased or actually biased to the right! Buwahahahahaha, what an ignorant too.
So I would also take a grain of salt with whatever factcheck and snopes may officiously pointificate about. They aren’t exactly the Oracles of Delphi since the “researchers” at both organizations are typically liberal and have their own built in bias and ideological filters.
Also, both snopes and factcheck use the derogatory leftist term “birthers” to engage in their snarky, juvenile ad hominems against those with legitimate questions that have been raised because of Mr. Obama’s complete opacity on the topic. You know, the ol’ wink-wink-nudge-nudge these people are loonie tunes for even thinking Obama has anything to hide about his school records and his birth records despite spending nearly a million bucks in seeing to it they never see the light of day, right? Why isn’t Obamao more transparent? He’s the one that keeps these inquiries going and we still haven’t seen a certified copy of his Hawaiian Certificate of Birth have we, other than some Democrat official waving his hand and saying, “Hey, take my word for it.”?
Nnopes/Factcheck have already demonstrated their bias by using the term “birthers”. I suppose they also wouldn’t have a problem using the N-word when referring to the lunatic conspiracy theories of “Reverend” Jeremiah Wright, e.g. AIDS was created by the CIA to kill black Americans. I also don’t think they made it a habit of referring to the raving lunatic leftists and anarcho-socialists who believed 9/11 was an “inside job” as “troofers” or “truthers” in their analysis of that utterly ignorant and lying 9/11 conspiracy theory, right?
I have used Snopes many times, and often it is reliable. But it has a strong bias toward the left. I’m not saying the Obama citizenship issue is real, but I would never take the word of Snopes on this.
A .com website to check a .com website…people believe anything…
Check this
http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08a407.htm
The actual website for the court for the case they are talking about…
Don’t beleive this…then you must be a complete conspiracy theory person and better go visit the court in person.. Big ornate building in DC just ask you can’t miss it.
Obozos a socialist make no mistake and he is in the process of bankrupting the country with the help of EVERYONE because common sense seems to have left the country….
People should download this manual from the U.S. DEPARTMENT of STATE & read this for themselves.
It should put an END to a lot of peoples QUESTIONS & BOGUS “arguments” that have been “floating” around.
ACQUISITION OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH IN THE UNITED STATES
7 FAM 1111 INTRODUCTION
a. U.S. citizenship may be acquired either at birth or through naturalization subsequent to birth. U.S. laws governing the acquisition of citizenship at birth embody two legal principles:
(1) Jus soli (the law of the soil) – a rule of common law under which the place of a person’s birth determines citizenship. In addition to common law, this principle is embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the various U.S. citizenship and nationality statutes.
(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline) – a concept of Roman or civil law under which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As U.S. laws have changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also changed.
Click to access 86755.pdf
From WHAT I have seen, all of the “birther” claims & arguments are NONSENSE, as people who take the TIME to actually RESEARCH & VERIFY things for themselves will quickly find out.
To me, there should NEVER have been a “controversy”.
If Obama was BORN in Hawaii in 1961, then he IS QUALIFIED to serve as PRESIDENT.
http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
IF you believe the information on the Certification of Live Birth and/or the VERIFICATION from Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health is CORRECT; then you ALREADY have your EVIDENCE that Obama is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN & is qualified to serve as PRESIDENT.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
Click to access 09-063.pdf
If you DON’T & you believe that there is a “conspiracy” & a “cover-up”; then it’s likely that NOTHING short of a BURNING BUSH speaking or a FLAMING HAND writing on the wall that will CONVINCE you.
And since NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE has surfaced to show otherwise, it appears to me that he was born in Hawaii.
Unfortunately, many people have been EXPOSED to an intense PROPAGANDA & DISINFORMATION campaign & do NOT realize it.
They have been hit with POLITICALLY driven media that has SPAWNED many RUMOURS.
They have been hit with IDEOLOGICALY driven media that has completely MISLED people about the LAW & the QUALIFICATIONS for PRESIDENT.
They have been hit with PROFIT driven media that has PROMOTED & REINFORCED the ALLEGED “controversy”, “conspiracy” & “cover-up” & then MADE MONEY by SELLING them stuff to protest it.
They have given CREDENCE to DOGMA & a number of RUMOURS, UNFOUNDED ACCUSATIONS, and outright DECEPTIONS.
And they have given CREDENCE to a number of FRIVOLOUS lawsuits that have filed by people who have NO STANDING.
It’s called the MUSHROOM EFFECT. CLOAK them in DARKNESS & FEED them BS.
Patrick in California
“ASSUMPTION can be very COSTLY to MANY and very PROFITABLE to a FEW.”–PKM
As for FactCheck.org …..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge
Oh NO! Not more William Ayers & BHO connections!!!
This is definitely a hoax,and was based on one that circulated earlier this year. That earlier one was verified as a hoax by an organization with a website called FactCheck.org. This site is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center. If you don’t trust Snope’s, check out the facts for yourself at http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/was-obama-born-in-the-usa/
You need to be careful to check out all your facts before you send your articles out into cyberspace, as publishing hoaxes as “facts” will undermine your credibility in general, making everything you report suspect.
Snopes is not a reliable source. The same people run urbanlegends.com. They are a very liberal couple that live in Southern California. They do gather facts from other websites. If it agrees with their philosophy, they print it and if it doesn’t, they simply ignore, i.e., subject not found, or twist it slightly much like Mr. Obama does with his words. While this may be a hoax, this could all be put to rest if he would just release his records. Further, every person when running for public office must provide the public clerk with documents verifying their eligibility to run. I would be very interested in knowing what documents were provided and the name of the person that accepted his eligibility to run.
John & Linda,
Although this is most likely a hoax, I would remind you that Snopes is no more a reliable source than is the National Enquirer or any of the other tabloids. There are numerous sources that have investigated Snopes’ background and finances.
John is right. See: Click here: snopes.com: Obama’s Occidental College Records / Meet the Soetoros
This is a hoax, has been around for some time chech out “Snopes”